Life In 19x19

Dr. Fawthrop wrote:I [...] expect them to address me as Dr. Fawthrop. Many of them do, but some will call me Mr. Fawthrop.

As for this thread, I find it a tad silly to get worked up about this. I would assume that this guy (or girl, hermaphrodite, etc.) is simply using "sensei" as a synonym for "teacher", with a slight Japanophile tint (as is common in Western go circles).
If someone called himself "go teacher", I'd assume it is because he is teaching go, not because he wants to adorn himself with false laurels implied by the term "teacher".

And even supposing the person in question is fluent in Japanese cultural etiquette regarding the term "sensei", one could still argue that his target audience likely is not. Therefore, as the person has already been revealed to be aiming at an anglophone market, I don't see much point in discussing the "true" connotations carried by the Japanese word "sensei".

When I heard someone in my go-club refer to someone else (also in the club) as his "sensei", I thought it was a bit weird, but the idea was simply that of indicating some form of teacher-student relationship between the two, however casual. I believe I've observed similar usage on KGS.


Loanwords don't necessarily mean what they meant in the original language.
As an example, Germans say "handy" (English pronunciation) to mean "mobile phone".
A borderline topical quote to finish:

James Nicoll wrote:The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.

leichtloeslich wrote:

Dr. Fawthrop wrote:I [...] expect them to address me as Dr. Fawthrop. Many of them do, but some will call me Mr. Fawthrop.

As for this thread, I find it a tad silly to get worked up about this. I would assume that this guy (or girl, hermaphrodite, etc.) is simply using "sensei" as a synonym for "teacher", with a slight Japanophile tint (as is common in Western go circles).
If someone called himself "go teacher", I'd assume it is because he is teaching go, not because he wants to adorn himself with false laurels implied by the term "teacher".

And even supposing the person in question is fluent in Japanese cultural etiquette regarding the term "sensei", one could still argue that his target audience likely is not. Therefore, as the person has already been revealed to be aiming at an anglophone market, I don't see much point in discussing the "true" connotations carried by the Japanese word "sensei".

When I heard someone in my go-club refer to someone else (also in the club) as his "sensei", I thought it was a bit weird, but the idea was simply that of indicating some form of teacher-student relationship between the two, however casual. I believe I've observed similar usage on KGS.


Loanwords don't necessarily mean what they meant in the original language.
As an example, Germans say "handy" (English pronunciation) to mean "mobile phone".
A borderline topical quote to finish:

James Nicoll wrote:The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.

I find it extremely annoying, on the verge of insulting, that you quote me to express this opinion. You must not have been in an academic environment at any significant level. I was not, by any means, expressing annoyance or approbration, but merely trying to add something to the discussion. I thought I made it clear that, unless the title has some significant in the current environment, it is meaningless.

Hi Tom, I have a friend, let's call him John Smith, he has a doctorate and has been teaching at the university level in America for at least a decade, I think. The following is my paraphrase of part of his introduction to his students on the first day of class:

"Welcome to Course 101. My name is John Smith. (After some introduction about the course, administrative business, etc. ) You can call me John, or Dr. Smith, or professor Smith. Although sometimes when I hear "professor Smith," I think someone is addressing my dad. At a university, it's never wrong to address your teacher as "professor". ( He's using the 2nd definition of 'professor' on Google search, 'a university teacher [North America]'. ) Of course, if they tell you that you can call them by their first name, that's OK, too. "

I have another friend, let's call him Joe Doe, he had been teaching at a university in America for 20 some years, was the chairman of the department for about a decade, and eventually retired in 2009 (now professor emeritus). I was one of his teaching assistants for about 10 years. In all that time, he only introduced himself as "I'm Joe Doe." on the first day of class. And he let his students call him as professor Doe, or just Joe. My estimate is 95% of his students just called him Joe.


( Local time Sun Dec 28, 2014. 10:54 am )

Hi Tom, a few nights ago, I saw an NHK documentary about Japanese sword polishing. It was very interesting (for me). The tradition is still being passed on in Japan from one generation to the next, from a master to the apprentices. The pupils call their teacher sensei, and the teacher refers to his own teacher as sensei. It's very nice.

In this particular episode, the mastercraftsman's sensei happened to be a national treasure of Japan. The mastercraftsman said, "After all these years, no matter how hard I've tried, I can never surpass Sensei. But I'm hoping my pupils will."

( Local time Sun Dec 28, 2014. 11:34 am )

i think this is a weird western problem clash with eastern cultures.

i've known my go teacher for the longest time and i pretty much only call her "laoshi". her other students will call her by her first name, but it's just not in me
the same idea is with the japanese pros i've interacted with, only i add "-san" to their names. But that's because they're not really my teacher. I'd never really dare call them by just their last name.

the easiest analogue i can give is like knowing your friend's dad as "Mr. Jones" since birth. You can't easily call them "John" later on after having that concept of "Mr. Jones"
so for me with anybody i'm in a "lower" ranking with (student/teacher-wise), they're immediately "-laoshi","-sensei","-san".

often wrote:the easiest analogue i can give is like knowing your friend's dad as "Mr. Jones" since birth. You can't easily call them "John" later on after having that concept of "Mr. Jones"

For all my teachers before university, I've always addressed them with the prefixes Mr., Ms., etc. Even 20 years after school, when some of them told me it's no longer necessary, I still do it, and will likely continue forever.

With other teachers (in the US), after college, I always address them by their first names.

Like Go, there are always exceptions. There is one teacher, since 1987, he'll always be my Sensei.

( Local time Mon Dec 29, 2014. 08:56 am )

Marcel Grünauer wrote:I've seen a Japanese movie where a school teacher referred to himself as "sensei", but without the given name, as in "Sensei will do X", but then the character was a bit old-fashioned.

I suspect that the students were very young? That usage is similar to the way that mothers will say "Mummy will do that..." in order to make the relationship clear to the child.

In general, calling yourself "sensei" is... distinctly odd, to say the least.

I've heard (Western) martial arts teachers refer to themselves as "Sensei Jim", to add a further level of weirdness.

Marcel Grünauer wrote:

Nyanjilla wrote:I suspect that the students were very young? That usage is similar to the way that mothers will say "Mummy will do that..." in order to make the relationship clear to the child.

It's possible that it is this usage, but the pupils weren't very young.

The movie is called "Aoi Tori" (青い鳥, "Blue Bird"); it's about the behaviour of a class of ca. 15-year-olds who have bullied a classmate to the point where he tried to commit suicide.

Here is a scene that involves the teacher calling himself "sensei" - it's not the only scene, but serves as an example:

The teacher says:

だから、先生は野口君の名前ずっと呼んでやるんだ。

So I'm going to keep calling Noguchi-kun's name.

Also, at 2:55:

だから先生は野口君のことをクラスで一番大切にしてあげたいんだ

So I want to give him the best attention in the class.

Hmmm. Sounds to me like Sensei is pulling rank.