Life In 19x19

oh... I like that in your first diagram, I should try that too ...
so many things to try... but fortunatly goquest can now send the sgf via email, that will help me to keep track of my different tries...

the second diagram is scary for me but I should also try that...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bm3 A continuation
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . . , . . |
$$ | . . . . 4 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . , 5 2 1 3 . . |
$$ | . . . 7 6 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bm3 Another idea
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . 7 , . . |
$$ | . . . 9 4 5 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . X O 8 . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . , . 2 1 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bm3 Another idea
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . . , a . |
$$ | . . . . . 5 7 0 . |
$$ | . . . . X O . 8 . |
$$ | . . . . X O . 6 . |
$$ | . . , . 2 1 3 9 . |
$$ | . . . . 4 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]

Go is full of interesting things to read

topazg wrote:

$$Bm3 Atari is often bad anyway...
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . , . 2 1 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bm3 Atari is often bad anyway...
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . , . 2 1 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]

Actually atari is probably good because

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bm3
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . 7 . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . , 3 2 1 5 . . |
$$ | . . . 6 4 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]

Is more cramped for white than

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bm3
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . , 4 2 1 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]

It's a bit of a moot point here as both are awesome for black, but it's an important shape principle. You see a similar idea in this joseki punishment: http://josekipedia.com/#path:pdqfqhofnd ... rjrkqkpkmi. White should play the atari on the 2 stones before the 3 because if you do the 3 first then black can extend the 2 as his escape plan (which still sucks big time when you take the 3) but at least his extension gives his outside stones more liberties and better shape than if you get that atari in on them.*

Ninja-d again, but topazg your last diagram end it faster:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bm3 Another idea
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . 7 . |
$$ | . . . . X O . 6 . |
$$ | . . , . 2 1 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . 4 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]

* Actually maybe it's not so clear cut, because playing atari on the 2 first allows black's escape plan to be connecting underneath as taking the 2 stones only gains the 4 white ones 1 liberty.

This is probably a better version of the one you liked btw:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bm9 Sacrifice even bigger...
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . . , . . |
$$ | . . . . 9 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . 7 . |
$$ | . . . . X O 8 6 . |
$$ | . . , X O X 1 3 . |
$$ | . . . X O O 2 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]

Never be afraid to use your stones as forcing exchanges instead of keeping them alive

topazg wrote:
Never be afraid to use your stones as forcing exchanges instead of keeping them alive

This is especially true on 9x9 I think. Bots are particularly good at sacrificing because they don't have the emotional attachments to their stones like humans do. So many of the impressive bot plays I have seen on 9x9 involve them dying early on but using the forcing moves and aji to win.

topazg wrote:

$$Bm3 Another idea
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . . , a . |
$$ | . . . . . 5 7 0 . |
$$ | . . . . X O . 8 . |
$$ | . . . . X O . 6 . |
$$ | . . , . 2 1 3 9 . |
$$ | . . . . 4 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bm3 Another idea
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . . , a . |
$$ | . . . . . 5 7 0 . |
$$ | . . . . X O . 8 . |
$$ | . . . . X O . 6 . |
$$ | . . , . 2 1 3 9 . |
$$ | . . . . 4 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]

Go is full of interesting things to read

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bm3 Yet another idea
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . , . . . , . . |
$$ | . . . . . 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . 7 . |
$$ | . . . . X O . 6 . |
$$ | . . , . 2 1 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . 4 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]

Uberdude wrote:

topazg wrote:
Never be afraid to use your stones as forcing exchanges instead of keeping them alive

This is especially true on 9x9 I think. Bots are particularly good at sacrificing because they don't have the emotional attachments to their stones like humans do. So many of the impressive bot plays I have seen on 9x9 involve them dying early on but using the forcing moves and aji to win.

This is a game where I won as black while losing a 5 stones group. but... that was not planned in advence, so I feel being a bit lucky in that game ... and looked very slow to me.
komi is 7, chinese rules.