Life In 19x19

SoDesuNe wrote: For 1.) I can recommend replaying pro games. It may take a while (patience!) until you have build up a sufficient repertoire (probably mostly unconciously) of moves in certain situations but until then you can enjoy their moves and see/learn a lot of other stuff, too.

Thanks, I like your idea!

Trying to fix this while you are doing it may be like trying to paint the inside of your house through the letterbox on the front door. I'm not saying you can't do it if you are a good enough painter, but...

Well, I can make one meager suggestion, which works if you play online: use a screen capture program to record your own voice during the game along with the moves. Talk to yourself a lot, like the livebloggers, though there is no need to be public like that. This is just for your private study, or maybe with a trusted teacher. But definitely say what you think is going to happen, how you feel, what you think your opponent is thinking, and why you are making your moves. Then, review the recording later.

The reason to do this is that our memories are imperfect. We reconstruct a lot when later new information comes in and are not ready to process information as it comes in live, like in the invisible gorilla experiment. When you review your video, you will wonder why you did not see the gorilla, in this case your opponent's plan, tesuji, surprise moyo, whatever.

Next time, you may see the gorilla.

But you will miss the stormtrooper and the squirrel, because every game is different. So you need to do it more than once.

snorri wrote:Well, I can make one meager suggestion, which works if you play online: use a screen capture program to record your own voice during the game along with the moves. Talk to yourself a lot, like the livebloggers, though there is no need to be public like that. This is just for your private study, or maybe with a trusted teacher. But definitely say what you think is going to happen, how you feel, what you think your opponent is thinking, and why you are making your moves. Then, review the recording later.

I don't know, don't you think much faster than you talk? If you intentionally slow you down by talking, I guess you also hamper your ability to play at your best. Especially pattern recognition happens - as far as I know - completely subconsciously.

There is a reason why a lot of Go streamers sandbag, I guess ; )

snorri wrote:
Well, I can make one meager suggestion, which works if you play online: use a screen capture program to record your own voice during the game along with the moves. Talk to yourself a lot, like the livebloggers, though there is no need to be public like that. This is just for your private study, or maybe with a trusted teacher. But definitely say what you think is going to happen, how you feel, what you think your opponent is thinking, and why you are making your moves. Then, review the recording later.

To me, this is a novel idea.
Especially for the online players among us, this may help.

And yes, thought-to-speak ratio (some say 10 to 1) means not all your thoughts will be recorded, but it also means (I think) you grow patience: place your move only after you have spoken out your thoughts.

Thank for the idea, will give it a try.

Kirby wrote:

Bill Spight wrote: But which of your reading skills need development?

From what I gather from your advice, I would think that the following areas need improvement:
1.) I should consider a wider set of moves. If it is true that I am subject to reinforcing bad moves, then perhaps it's because of using this depth first search instead of breadth first search.

Oh, I don't think that you are reinforcing bad moves. Your choice of candidate moves to explore will be good, even if you miss the best play. Occasionally you will try a bad move, like everybody else.

But for effective use of your time and effort, how good is your choice of candidate plays? Suppose that you play over a professional game, at each move choosing the five best candidate plays. (You are not trying to guess the pro's move, but are just picking what you think are the five best plays to explore.) Very often the pro's move should be among your candidates, even if it is not the best play. How often do you miss it? You can test this out with GoGoD's GoScorer software, among others, or even do it yourself. The positions where you miss the pro moves are often good ones to study.

Now in a real game you may not always explore five candidates; sometimes you may explore more (edit: and sometimes fewer), depending upon the position. You may also read out the play locally in different areas, even if you do not plan to play there now. (I used to do that as a bad habit when I was a DDK, before I started playing the whole board. After that I kept doing it, since it usually came in handy later. )

As for patience, I have a couple of thoughts, but I don't know if they apply to you. When I was just learning go I heard that Japanese pros advocated studying go positions for the truth about them, not just with an eye to winning the game. That attitude requires patience, and helps to develop it.

Some years ago I played a demonstration game against Nam Chihyung, a replay endgame with coupons. I lost by 2 points. Each play session took about one hour, with a late lunch in between. I was not used to the intensity of the game, in part because my reading was inefficient, as Magicwand says. But the real difference, I felt, came in the second session. I sensed that she had learned more about the position during the first session than I had. Approaching games as learning opportunities, win or lose, helps to develop an objective eye and emotional control.

Now, in your case I have surmised that you are too eager to butt heads with your opponents, and that indicates a certain impatience. You can judge whether that is true or not, or to what degree it is so. It may also be that you see your opponent's territory as bigger than it is. If so, that is a different, but related problem. Developing an objective eye can help with it.

I haven't read the thread in detail, so my points may have emerged already one way or the other. But the two most effective ways to get better concentration (apart from trying to concentrate more and more often) are:

1. Meditation: About 20 minutes every day are enough to help you to focus on the moment. In Go, at work, during conversations, etc. You can do it freestyle. Sitting down comfortable but not slack, focussing on your breath, trying to push every thought gently away. Or you search a Zazen group in your area to do it more seriously.

2. Recreational sport: Go is very exhausting and you need a lot of stamina to sit through hours of thinking. When you listen to Snooker players, they always say how important stamina enhancing sport is for them, as their profession mostly strains their brain. So go jogging, biking or play football, etc. But rather not play chess.

I have the same problem Kirby described in the OP.

If I'm completely honest, I think it is complexity that eventually gets me. The more stones on the board, the more complex the game is, in general. Later in the game, when I trick myself, I tend to think this chaos / complexity is the reason.

My current solution is counter intuitive, maybe. Rather than trying to simplify the game, I am doing the opposite, cutting when it's remotely reasonable, creating fights and complexity. (Even when leading, which I know is stupid, if winning is what I'm after.)

My rating swiftly declined from 1 dan KGS to 2 kyu. I'm still following the same course, and am back to 1k, and feeling okay about my go. I still often "lose concentration" but no more often than my opponents, I think. And a higher proportion of my games have been great fun.

I probably should have done this at 5k, but better late than never.

Akura wrote:I haven't read the thread in detail, so my points may have emerged already one way or the other. But the two most effective ways to get better concentration (apart from trying to concentrate more and more often) are:

1. Meditation: About 20 minutes every day are enough to help you to focus on the moment. In Go, at work, during conversations, etc. You can do it freestyle. Sitting down comfortable but not slack, focussing on your breath, trying to push every thought gently away. Or you search a Zazen group in your area to do it more seriously.

2. Recreational sport: Go is very exhausting and you need a lot of stamina to sit through hours of thinking. When you listen to Snooker players, they always say how important stamina enhancing sport is for them, as their profession mostly strains their brain. So go jogging, biking or play football, etc. But rather not play chess.

To me playing go is already a form of meditation, and it is much more effective than any other kind of meditation I have tried. I quickly gave up on any meditation that involves "clearing your mind" or trying not to think of anything. It was impossible for me to do so and I have even read stories of monks who succeeded and ended up in a permanent coma for their efforts. So the other kind of meditation is focusing on something specific, like breathing - or go. When I play go I am aware of very little but the board. I cannot hold even simple conversations without deliberately disengaging from the board, and might not even notice if my wife is trying to talk to me. If a movie is on in the background, I experience a time warp when the game is over - not remembering anything that happened during the course of the game. Now I am certainly not saying that traditional meditation would not help others or that it is a bad idea, it was just not for me, and I found the parallels that exist between playing go and meditation interesting.

To me playing go is already a form of meditation,
and it is much more effective than any other kind of meditation I have tried.

Indeed, Go can be an excellent form of meditation.

If you experience go as meditation, you might not have a concentration problem . My experience is that meditating is a way of practicing and getting into the habit of a)noticing when my mind drifts, and b) regaining my focus. Since starting, my concentation has improved and my blunder-induced attacks on my self-esteem have decreased. Of course, you mileage may vary.

EdLee wrote: [...]

• Car racing

[...]
In Go, a loss of concentration, even for a fraction of a second,
could mean losing a few stones or the entire game.

In some of the other forms above, it could result in serious injuries or worse.

Part of the reasons some people are attracted to
those forms is the no-nonsense nature:
the feedback is very clear, direct, and immediate: a broken nose, or death.
Precisely for the same reason, they are not for everybody.
Nor is Go. :)

Man, I wished I had the same level of focus and concentration in Go as when I'm racing go-carts. I guess the fear for your life is still greater than the fear to a lose a game of Go : D

SoDesuNe wrote:

EdLee wrote: [...]

• Car racing

[...]
In Go, a loss of concentration, even for a fraction of a second,
could mean losing a few stones or the entire game.

In some of the other forms above, it could result in serious injuries or worse.

Part of the reasons some people are attracted to
those forms is the no-nonsense nature:
the feedback is very clear, direct, and immediate: a broken nose, or death.
Precisely for the same reason, they are not for everybody.
Nor is Go.

Man, I wished I had the same level of focus and concentration in Go as when I'm racing go-carts. I guess the fear for your life is still greater than the fear to a lose a game of Go : D

And that's the problem! .

Go is Serious Business. You must approach every game of go as it will be your last, as if your life depends on it!.

Bki wrote:

SoDesuNe wrote:

EdLee wrote: [...]

• Car racing

[...]
In Go, a loss of concentration, even for a fraction of a second,
could mean losing a few stones or the entire game.

In some of the other forms above, it could result in serious injuries or worse.

Part of the reasons some people are attracted to
those forms is the no-nonsense nature:
the feedback is very clear, direct, and immediate: a broken nose, or death.
Precisely for the same reason, they are not for everybody.
Nor is Go.

Man, I wished I had the same level of focus and concentration in Go as when I'm racing go-carts. I guess the fear for your life is still greater than the fear to a lose a game of Go : D

And that's the problem! .

Go is Serious Business. You must approach every game of go as it will be your last, as if your life depends on it!.

But it ain't, so we don't. That's the problem.

daal wrote:But it ain't, so we don't. That's the problem.

Well, then try betting an arm, or your house, or your liver, etc... on games. That way you will sure be motivated to win .

I decline all responsibilities for injuries or illegal actions caused by following my advice.

Bki wrote:

daal wrote:But it ain't, so we don't. That's the problem.

Well, then try betting an arm, or your house, or your liver, etc... on games. That way you will sure be motivated to win .

I decline all responsibilities for injuries or illegal actions caused by following my advice.

I see. All this time, I was worried about having better concentration, and all I needed to do was put my liver on the line!

A good alternative to drinking!