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Re: terminology - broken ladder/ladder works

Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:48 am
by leichtloeslich
Does a pro actually reommend playing like this?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ --------------------+
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ . O 6 X . X O . O . |
$$ , . . 4 5 O X O . . |
$$ . O . 2 3 1 X . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
This seems too good for white.

Also, with the other net, the nose tesuji at a would be my main concern, not so much the frontal peep, since peeps also exist in the other net.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ --------------------+
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ . O . X . X O . O . |
$$ , . . . . O X O . . |
$$ . O . . X . X . . . |
$$ . . . . . . a . O . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Re: terminology - broken ladder/ladder works

Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2015 8:06 am
by Uberdude
leichtloeslich wrote:Does a pro actually reommend playing like this?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ --------------------+
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ . O 6 X . X O . O . |
$$ , . . 4 5 O X O . . |
$$ . O . 2 3 1 X . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
This seems too good for white.
That's why I suggested just capturing, which doesn't take a liberty off the peep stone but does mean no more forcing moves.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ --------------------+
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ . O . X . X O . O . |
$$ , . . . 3 O X O . . |
$$ . O . 2 . 1 X . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
With the direct net Kageyama recommends against then this kind of sequence can happen if black plays outwards with 3 in response to 2.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ --------------------+
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ . O 6 X . X O . O . |
$$ , . . 4 5 O X O . . |
$$ . O . 2 1 . X . . . |
$$ . . . . 3 . . . O . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
And agreed the nose tesuji is probably going to be more useful for white.

With Kageyama's net there is aji like this which lets white make some eyeshape but not connect (and corner is damaged) so I think black can tolerate this.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ --------------------+
$$ . . . . . . 9 . . . |
$$ . . 8 4 6 X O . . . |
$$ . O . X 7 X O . O . |
$$ , . . 5 2 O X O . . |
$$ . O . 3 . 1 X . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]