Life In 19x19

This piece of advice is being passed around often on reddit in the baduk subreddit. There are a lot of interested beginners showing up after the craze of Alphago. A lot of people are telling them "If you haven't lost 50-100 games yet, then keep playing". I don't find this advice to be very helpful to a confused beginner. Someone could lose x amount of games and still have learned nothing about why they were losing. IMO, it's better to find someone that's willing to play teaching games with you so you can learn while you play. Even better if it can be in person.

I first learned the basics through go apps before meeting a friend that was willing to teach me as we played. This was helpful to me because as we played moves, we would often stop to discuss the moves; sometimes playing out variations, why things worked and didn't, etc. If I set out to play as many games as possible first, I don't think my learning process would have been as helpful. I later asked my friend about this proverb and he said it's a good one, and that you learn the most when you lose a game. That can be true, but only if someone is there to go over your game and help you understand why you lost.

Fadedsun wrote:I don't find this advice to be very helpful to a confused beginner. Someone could lose x amount of games and still have learned nothing about why they were losing.

I don't know about that. While I agree that the "lose 100 games" advice might not be very helpful as is, my experience is that the first dozen(s) of 9*9 games with beginners are there to teach them to see ataris, not forget that the first line is part of the board, etc. For that "knowledge" to become ingrained in you brain, you don't need comments from a stronger player (not that it would hurt!), but repetition through many games is necessary.
That's how I understand this proverb, not "lose" in the sense of "be prepared to lose, you weakling!", but more like "your brain is not yet wired to see the very basic building blocks of go, you'll have play a lot to acquire that".

Shenoute wrote:

Fadedsun wrote:I don't find this advice to be very helpful to a confused beginner. Someone could lose x amount of games and still have learned nothing about why they were losing.

I don't know about that. While I agree that the "lose 100 games" advice might not be very helpful as is, my experience is that the first dozen(s) of 9*9 games with beginners are there to teach them to see ataris, not forget that the first line is part of the board, etc. For that "knowledge" to become ingrained in you brain, you don't need comments from a stronger player (not that it would hurt!), but repetition through many games is necessary.
That's how I understand this proverb, not "lose" in the sense of "be prepared to lose, you weakling!", but more like "your brain is not yet wired to see the very basic building blocks of go, you'll have play a lot to acquire that".

I've always understood it as: (taking handicap as complete beginner from sdk or stronger) lose a bunch of gamed, realise a serious mistake you were making, lose a bunch of games while putting up a better fight, realise another major error, repeat until you win enough to reduce handicap by one, start again. Going from 8 to 7 happens much faster than going 9 to 8 too in my experience but having someone stay long enough until that happens can be tricky if they can't get close to even games too. The average beginner on here doesn't want to play online which can mean taking a lot of high handicaps at the club due to lack of players.

Bill Spight wrote:Instead of giving stones above 9, White downs a beer for every handicap stone that he does not give.

My friend and I are presently at six stones plus a couple of double Scotches.

Boidhre wrote:I've always understood it as: (taking handicap as complete beginner from sdk or stronger) lose a bunch of gamed, realise a serious mistake you were making, lose a bunch of games while putting up a better fight, realise another major error, repeat until you win enough to reduce handicap by one, start again. Going from 8 to 7 happens much faster than going 9 to 8 too in my experience but having someone stay long enough until that happens can be tricky if they can't get close to even games too. The average beginner on here doesn't want to play online which can mean taking a lot of high handicaps at the club due to lack of players.

It seems we have a different time line in mind for the "lose your 100 games" thing. For me it is more a matter of 2/3 weeks on a 9*9 board.

Shenoute wrote:It seems we have a different time line in mind for the "lose your 100 games" thing. For me it is more a matter of 2/3 weeks on a 9*9 board.

A lot of people I've met don't seem to think they're playing "real go" until they move onto the 19x19 board. Doesn't really matter. If someone wants to improve they need to play a lot of games and accept that losing a lot of them is normal and not something to worry about.