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Re: Do men play more aggressively against women?
Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 9:23 am
by Kirby
Women around my rank play at a skill level around my rank. That's all I've noticed.
Re: Do men play more aggressively against women?
Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 2:59 pm
by tapir
Helel wrote:Magicwand wrote:i heard many professionals agree that women play more aggresively.
If we reject Magicwands explanation then what is the reason for this?
- Is it only in the eyes of the beholders?
- Don't women get an outlet for their aggressions IRL, making up for it in games?
- Do they feel like underdogs and tries to compensate?
- Are aggressive females the ones most likely to succeed in a male-dominated world?
- Are a lot of women simply ill-tempered and quarrelsome?
is it true? i never heard something like that, just once the very opposite.
also the female players known for their aggressive style are the strong ones. and they win more of than not against their male colleagues as well.
Re: Do men play more aggressively against women?
Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 8:04 pm
by Alakazam
I know for a fact that, if I am aware that my opponent is weaker, I will be careless with my play. When it comes to gender, if anything I will be more aggressive with the male opponent because of a sort of man to man competitiveness. I admit that this may not happen with most female players. I probably haven't played enough of them on a real board, but when I play them I feel less motivated to play "feel bad" moves, or to overplay. I think that subconsciously, I don't want to make them feel bad, or put them in a bad mood or something (as if that would happen!), and I'll bet it's because I subconsciously feel like they would have a more positive impression of me if I play a bit reserved and "classy" ^^
I must say this though: In my experience, female players more often have a style that sways all the way to ferocity or all the way to complete pacifism than men. I can name female Canadian players that, in my experience, play with a bloodthirsty style or a slack style, but it could be a coincidence.
Re: Do men play more aggressively against women?
Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 1:28 pm
by Exologist
Hmm... I have yet to play a woman stronger than me (in person, whom I would know whether they be a woman). But with the ones I have played I tend to feel more guilt about destroying them. But perhaps this is because you can get that feeling from destroying any noobie.
Re: Do men play more aggressively against women?
Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 6:17 am
by El Teboso
Well, I haven't really played anyone who's around my strength in real life. Online, if there is a picture of a cute girl for their avatar... I admit, it's a little distracting. If they say that they are a real girl, though, then I immediately lose three stones.
And yes, I'd say I've noticed a trend towards more fighting. But that's because I have to fight or else I'll lose. Big time. It's like I'm trying to impress her with my conan style strength. Heh. Must be evolution.
Re: Do men play more aggressively against women?
Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 9:12 am
by karaklis
El Teboso wrote:cute girl for their avatar
That means the player is male.
Re: Do men play more aggressively against women?
Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 3:58 pm
by El Teboso
ah.
Re: Do men play more aggressively against women?
Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 11:21 pm
by Peter Hansmeier
FlamingMetroidzd wrote:Hmm... I have yet to play a woman stronger than me (in person, whom I would know whether they be a woman). But with the ones I have played I tend to feel more guilt about destroying them. But perhaps this is because you can get that feeling from destroying any noobie.
While I was living in China I played a high school girl who completely controlled her game against me while giving me a four-stone handicap... in front of a classroom of dan players and a pro. One of many humbling moments in my life.
I agree that men play more aggressively when women are around (even just watching), and I would add that men seem to spectate more aggressively when a woman is playing. In Minnesota we get female players each year who show up to the club interested in the game, but with a few exceptions they all eventually leave. I think that the men smother them with attention and make them uncomfortable (too much kibitz and "advice"). Of course, we also have male players who stop showing up, so I could be wrong.
Re: Do men play more aggressively against women?
Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 11:48 pm
by entropi
A quote from Hayashi Kozo 6p (IMO the most sympathetic pro at the european go congress in tampere):
"
Most important principle of middle game: While attacking, never look at you opponents face, if she is a young lady"
He said that in a lecture when reviewing his own game (a rapid game in team tournament I think) after having lost to a female Korean 7 dan player.
Re: Do men play more aggressively against women?
Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 8:17 am
by azrael
Strangely, I tend to play more passively and peacefully when playing against females of my strength. Unless I am losing than I just jump right in and fight.
Re: Do men play more aggressively against women?
Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 8:20 am
by topazg
There are games where you don't play aggressively? Surely not? I enjoy our games loads!
Re: Do men play more aggressively against women?
Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 11:21 am
by Suji
Here's what I just thought of.
If I ever play a female that's about my level (I'm male), I would indeed play more aggressively. Hopefully, the female that I'm playing matches my aggression so that we both, regardless of the outcome, can be pleased with the game that we had just played.
Re: Do men play more aggressively against women?
Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 6:32 pm
by Enink
Well, I can't comment on the difference between playing M-M and playing M-F, since I'm a female player, and a pretty aggressive one, at that. I notice that in F-F games, my opponent tends to respond to my aggressive moves by playing solidly, whereas male players tend to respond by either following my moves or overplays. I'm trying to think mostly about my last tournament (US Open), so that might not be lifetime accurate.
Re: Do men play more aggressively against women?
Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 7:56 pm
by shapenaji
fwiffo wrote:Getting onto a side topic which Magicwand has touched on; it may be that the relative strength of male and female professionals and the dearth of women at the highest levels can be accounted for only by lower rates of participation.
Take a population with a normal (bell curve) distribution of skill levels, and randomly divide that population into two groups, one significantly larger than the other. The very strongest members of the largest group are going to be significantly stronger than the members of the smaller group.
As an example, I wrote a quick simulation. 10,000 individuals, 15% "female" and 85% "male". I assigned them "skill levels" at random according to a normal distribution with a mean of 100 and standard deviation of 10. Running the simulation 10,000 times, the top 10 "men" averaged a "skill level" of about 133.1, and the top 10 "women" about 127.8. The ratio of men to women in professional chess is supposedly something like 16:1. Give my population that ratio and the top 10 men average 133.4 and the top 10 women average 124.6.
This study found that relative rankings of top male and female chess players is mostly consistent with this kind of effect. In other words, the difference between male and female skill levels in high level chess play can be mostly accounted for by participation rates.
^This needs to be repeated, it's amazing how often prejudices are simply built on a sampling bias.
WTG fwiffo for illustrating that there's no point in even discussing the differences in how men and women think if the bulk of the bias comes from elsewhere.
Wait till we get around a 50-50 make-up, if the differences continue, then there's something to talk about, until then, it's just speculation. (And dangerous speculation at that)
Re: Do men play more aggressively against women?
Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 8:15 pm
by Bantari
I do not have much experience playing against female players. But from what little experience I have, I did not notice any differences between a female of a certain rank and a male of the same rank. At least - no more that there are differences between different players of the same rank.
As a matter of fact, I have noticed myself playing different against females... well, maybe not really different, but with different expectations... somehow I EXPECT them to play differently, and thus each game against a female has a slightly different flavor for me and is somewhat special. Mostly my expectations are disappointed, though, and its just another game.