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Re: L & D for professionals
Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 11:10 pm
by ethanb
Cassandra wrote: Preventing White's Sente on the left immediately ...
... will not work, I suppose.
$$Bcm1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1
... are you sure?
A and B are miai
$$Bcm1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1Again
$$Bcm1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1Still dead, I think.
$$Bcm1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1This one is seki, but maybe I've got the wrong order of moves for black. Do we know the answer is supposed to be unconditional death?
$$Bcm1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1
Re: L & D for professionals
Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 12:25 am
by Cassandra
ethanb wrote: "@ Cassandra: '... are you sure?'"
Yes.
$$Bcm1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1One of the a is an eye and b is the second one.
$$Bcm1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1a and b will become eyes.
Re: L & D for professionals
Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 2:10 pm
by cyclops
prokofiev wrote: A few thoughts that are perhaps obvious:
It seems that if you don't play O19, White gets an easy eye:
$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0Edit: Nevermind. I had some idea about ignoring M19, but it clearly does not work...
I'm not sure what is wrong with your B1. B5&r19 next in your diagram seems to kill W. Or??
Re: L & D for professionals
Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 3:38 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
ethanb wrote:
...
$$Bcm1 Ah, tesuji?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1 Ah, tesuji?
White can resist better with
like this:
$$Bcm1 Ah, tesuji?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1 Ah, tesuji?
Re: L & D for professionals
Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 12:19 am
by Cassandra
cyclops wrote: I'm not sure what is wrong with your B1. ...
$$Bcm1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1Black 1 is an interesting spot.
This is the point to make two of White's potential eyes false simultanously. It goes without saying that this stone has to remain on the board to be effective.
Now the right seems to be more interesting than the left.
Re: L & D for professionals
Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 1:38 am
by Jordus
If white plays badly
Ignore Variations....
(;CA[Windows-1252]FF[4]AB[me][pe][re][mf][pf][ng][og][ka][kb][rb][jc][lc][rc][ld][md][qd]
A more serious try (again ignore variations):
(;GM[1]FF[4]SZ[19]GN[Prisoners: W=0, B=0]PC[http://lifein19x19.com/]AP[GoWiki:2009]DT[2010-08-22]C[Diagram from
http://lifein19x19.com/ Prisoners: W=0, B=0]PL[W]AB[ka][kb][rb][jc][lc][rc][ld][md][qd][je][me][pe][re][mf][pf][ng]
[og][oa]AW[jb][lb][mb][qb][kc][mc][oc][qc][nd][ne][nf]B[oa]
(;AE[oa]
(;B[na];W[oa];B[ob]
(;W[pb];B[pa];W[qa]
(;B[ra];W[oa];B[nb];W[ma];B[pa];W[pc];B[oa];W[pd];B[oe];W[nc]
;B[oa])
(;B[ma];W[oa]
(;B[la];W[nb];B[kd])
(;B[nb];W[nc];B[pa];W[la];B[kd];W[oa])))
(;W[pa];B[pb];W[qa]))
(;W[oa])
(;B[oa])
(;W[na]))
(;)
(;W[oa])
(;W[ob])
(;W[pa]
(;B[qa]
(;W[ra];B[pb];W[qa];B[pc])
(;W[ob]
(;B[pb];W[pc];B[pa];W[na];B[ra];W[la];B[kd];W[od])
(;B[pc];W[pb];B[la];W[ma];B[kd];W[na])))
(;B[ob];W[nb];B[pb]
(;W[qa];B[pc])
(;W[pc];B[qa];W[na];B[pa];W[ra]))
(;B[nb];W[ob];B[na];W[ma];B[od];W[pc];B[qa];W[ra];B[kd];W[oe]
;B[pd];W[sb];B[sc];W[sd];B[rd]
(;W[of])
(;W[nc];B[sa];W[qa]))
(;B[na]
(;W[ma];B[pb]
(;W[qa];B[pc])
(;W[ob];B[qa]
(;W[pc];B[pa];W[nb];B[ra];W[pd];B[oe];W[kd];B[ke];W[ja];B[jd]
;W[la];B[kc])
(;W[pd];B[pc];W[od];B[nb];W[nc];B[pa])))
(;W[ob]
(;B[ma];W[la])
(;B[la];W[ma])
(;B[nc]
(;W[nb];B[pc])
(;W[pd];B[oe];W[od]
(;B[ma]
(;W[la])
(;W[nb];B[kd];W[la]))
(;B[kd];W[nb])
(;B[ra];W[nb];B[qa];W[pb])))))))
Re: L & D for professionals
Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 7:23 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
Jordus wrote:
White lives like this:
11 O17
12 takes ko
13 M19
14 L16
15 takes ko
16 ( no ko threat )
Re: L & D for professionals
Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 7:43 pm
by Jordus
Joaz Banbeck wrote: Jordus wrote:
White lives like this:
11 O17
12 takes ko
13 M19
14 L16
15 takes ko
16 ( no ko threat )
I disagree with your move 13... white wouldn:t play m19, they would play p17 to protect the 4 stones in atari...
Re: L & D for professionals
Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 9:51 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
Jordus wrote: Joaz Banbeck wrote: Jordus wrote:
White lives like this:
11 O17
12 takes ko
13 M19
14 L16
15 takes ko
16 ( no ko threat )
I disagree with your move 13... white wouldn:t play m19, they would play p17 to protect the 4 stones in atari...
As I understand the rules here, the goal is to kill
all of the white stones. If the majority get away, then the line is not a solution.
Re: L & D for professionals
Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 12:28 am
by illluck
Re: L & D for professionals
Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 6:53 am
by Cassandra
@ Jordus:
Even if your sequence would work for Black, you might have only shown that
one (in answer to
one ) does not bring White to life.
There are other
remaining for White. If none of them brings White to life, this one
is the first move of the solution.
like this:
Ignore Variations....
(in answer to 
) does not bring White to life.