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Go Seigen Cup World Women's Championship

https://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=15521

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Re: Go Seigen Cup World Women's Championship

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:55 pm
by sorin
macelee wrote:The new AI program has been named as 星阵围棋, ('星阵' literally meaning 'an array of stars'). But there is a formal English name called Golaxy. It is related to the AI program Abacus, but new (none machine learning) techniques are said to be used.
The "new (none machine learning)" part sounds intriguing and contradictory, I wonder if there is a typo or some inaccurate translation somewhere?

If it is using some new AI-like techniques, it would still fall in the "machine learning" category. Maybe: "new machine learning techniques"?

If it is using some old, rule-based techniques - then I don't think "new" is accurate...

Re: Go Seigen Cup World Women's Championship

Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 1:52 am
by Uberdude
Maybe Go Seigen's brain in a vat? Or is that actually DeepMind's secret?

Re: Go Seigen Cup World Women's Championship

Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:34 am
by John Fairbairn
Could the new techniques be to do with hardware, not software?

Re: Go Seigen Cup World Women's Championship

Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:47 am
by macelee
John Fairbairn wrote:Could the new techniques be to do with hardware, not software?
Having read several reports I still don't know what exactly the new techniques are. But one thing I learn is that the developers are exploring ways to use only a small amount of computing resources (relative to AlphaGo) to achieve high level playing. So this does not sound like a hardware solution.

Re: Go Seigen Cup World Women's Championship

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 3:38 am
by Uberdude
The game 1st golaxy vs Leela Zero game will start in less than an hour, with English commentary by Zhao Baolong 2p here: http://portal.yikeweiqi.com/online/goli ... il?id=8326. From https://www.reddit.com/r/cbaduk/comment ... be_played/ Golaxy will use 10x1080Ti GPUs and LZ 4*Titan V (apparently these are about the same power). Also Golaxy has 19 blocks, so is neural-network based, just probably not a Zero-style.

Re: Go Seigen Cup World Women's Championship

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:41 am
by Uberdude
Here is the 1st Golaxy vs LeelaZero game. LZ lost after playing an utter nonsense move, some people wondered if this was a bug due to high tree simulations, but now it seems a technical relay error. LZ was at 39% win before though.



Should I move this and the other Golaxy vs LZ related posts to a new thread in computer go subforum?

Re: Go Seigen Cup World Women's Championship

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:48 am
by macelee
Golaxy 2 : LZ 0

Golaxy was so strong in close combat.

Re: Go Seigen Cup World Women's Championship

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:55 am
by macelee
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . O X X . . X X . |
$$ | X O O . X X . . X O . . O X . . O X O |
$$ | . X . O O . . X . O . . O . X X X O . |
$$ | X O O X O . . . . . . . . O . . a O . |
$$ | O . O X . . . X . . . . . . O . X O . |
$$ | . X X X . O . . . . . . . X X X X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . 1 . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . O X . |
$$ | . X O . X . . . . . . . X . . X X O . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . O O X O X X O . |
$$ | . O X X . X . X . , O . . O O , O X . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O O . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
It appears that white has two weak groups, plus the upper-left corner is not alive either. But Golaxy had the leisure to play :w2: to capture 4 stones and secure very big teritorry advantage. Note there's aji at 'a' so white probably did not think the groups were under any danger.

It ended up in this situation and white only started saving the weak groups at this moment.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . O X X . . X X . |
$$ | X O O . X X . . X O . . O X . . O X O |
$$ | . X . O O . . X . O . . O . X X X O . |
$$ | X O O X O . . . . . . . . O . . . O . |
$$ | O . O X . . . X . . . . . . O . X O . |
$$ | . X X X . O . . . . . . . X X X X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . X O |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . X O . X . . . . . . . X . O X X O . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . O O X O X X O . |
$$ | . O X X . X . X . , O . . O O , O X . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O O . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Later:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . O X X . . X X . |
$$ | X O O . X X . . X O . . O X . . O X O |
$$ | . X . O O . . X . O . . O . X X X O . |
$$ | X O O X O . . . . . . . . O . . a O . |
$$ | O . O X . . . X . . 1 X . . O . X O . |
$$ | . X X X . O . . . . . . . X X X X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . O . . O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . X O |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . X O . X . . . . . . . X . O X X O . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . O O X O X X O . |
$$ | . O X X . X . X . , O . . O O , O X . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O O . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Because of the aji at 'a' white could play this very strong move.

Later:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . O X X . . X X . |
$$ | X O O . X X . . X O . . O X . . O X O |
$$ | . X . O O . . X . O . . O . X X X O . |
$$ | X O O X O . . . . . . . . O . . 1 O . |
$$ | O . O X . . . X . . O X X O O . X O . |
$$ | . X X X . O . . . . O X . X X X X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 5 3 X O O O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . 4 2 O X X O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 6 X X . . . . . X O |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . X O . X . . . . . . . X . O X X O . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . O O X O X X O . |
$$ | . O X X . X . X . , O . . O O , O X . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O O . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Black was forced to connect at :b1: and white managed to break out and black's bottom-right group became the defendant.

Later:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . a . . O X X . . X X . |
$$ | X O O . X X . 6 X O . . O X . . O X O |
$$ | . X . O O . . X . O . . O . X X X O . |
$$ | X O O X O . 3 2 4 . . . . O . . X O . |
$$ | O . O X . . 5 X . . O X X O O . X O . |
$$ | . X X X . O . . X . O X . X X X X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X X X O O O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . . O O O X X O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . 1 . . O . O X X . . X . . X O |
$$ | . . X . . X . . O X . X X X X X X X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O X . O O O O O O X . |
$$ | . X O . X . . O X . X X X . O X X O . |
$$ | . O O . . . . O X . . O O X O X X O . |
$$ | . O X X . X O X X , O . . O O , O X . |
$$ | . O O X . . O O O . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
At this moment, I was thinking that white could play 'a' to at least create a ko fight. But Golaxy knew much better.

:w2: a good tesuji, and :w6: an even better one! White would either be unconditionally alive, or as in the real game, cut off black's central group and kill it!

Re: Go Seigen Cup World Women's Championship

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 12:35 pm
by sorin
macelee wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . O X X . . X X . |
$$ | X O O . X X . . X O . . O X . . O X O |
$$ | . X . O O . . X . O . . O . X X X O . |
$$ | X O O X O . . . . . . . . O . . a O . |
$$ | O . O X . . . X . . . . . . O . X O . |
$$ | . X X X . O . . . . . . . X X X X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . 1 . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . O X . |
$$ | . X O . X . . . . . . . X . . X X O . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . O O X O X X O . |
$$ | . O X X . X . X . , O . . O O , O X . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O O . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
It appears that white has two weak groups, plus the upper-left corner is not alive either. But Golaxy had the leisure to play :w2: to capture 4 stones and secure very big teritorry advantage. Note there's aji at 'a' so white probably did not think the groups were under any danger.
I think that the main benefit from white 2 in the diagram is keeping the black group weak - of course, capturing 4 stones is a nice bonus on top of that.

Re: Go Seigen Cup World Women's Championship

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 1:42 pm
by Uberdude
Watching the game, I felt like the onus was on black (Leela Zero) to prove it was justified in allowing white to get both the turn and the block (marked) on the right side: allowing that just goes so much against my intuition. Yes the "plan" was obviously to get some large splitting attack later (but black needed to get the marked 2nd line connection at the top right before and chances to attack that white group) but in doing so white squirmed around on the right side a lot and took away black's territory and eyespace too, plus making the a cut bad aji (like sorin said unsettling that black group was most important aspect of the peep).
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . O X B . . X X . |
$$ | X O O . X X . . X O . . O X . . O X O |
$$ | . X . O O . . X . O . . O . X X X O . |
$$ | X O O X O . . . . . . . . O . . a O . |
$$ | O . O X . . . X . . . . . . O . X O . |
$$ | . X X X . O . . . . . . . X X X X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O W . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . W X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . 1 . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . O X . |
$$ | . X O . X . . . . . . . X . . X X O . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . O O X O X X O . |
$$ | . O X X . X . X . , O . . O O , O X . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O O . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Re: Go Seigen Cup World Women's Championship

Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:11 am
by macelee
Returning to the original topic, there's indeed a qualifying round for the eight EU/NA players. 4 winners join the rest in the main tournament with 24 players in total. 8 stronger players will start from round 2.

Players:

China: Rui Naiwei*, Yu Zhiying, Wang Chengxing*, Li He, Gao Xing*, Lu Minquan, Yin Qu
Korea: Choi Jeong*, Oh Yujin*, Oh Jeonga, Kim Cheayoung
Japan: Xie Yimin*, Fujisawa Rina*, Ueno Asami, Nyu Eiko
Chinese Taipei: He Jiajia*, Yang Zixuan

Players with a star after their names are in round 2 directly.

Europe: Natalia Kovaleva, Rita Pocsai, Elvina Kalsberg, Laura Avram (I still need to verify the last two names because I have only source materials in Chinese)
North America: Feng Yun, Yin Mingming, Yu Jin, Su Geping (Feng Yun's daughter - she might have an English name which I need to find out)
Only 4 of them will enter the main tournament after the qualifying round.

Wildcard players: Zhang Xuan (CN), Guo Juan (EU), Manuela Marz (EU)

Re: Go Seigen Cup World Women's Championship

Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:28 am
by Uberdude
macelee wrote:Elvina Kalsberg, Laura Avram (I still need to verify the last two names because I have only source materials in Chinese)
Both correct. I remember losing to Laura in the Tampere EGC, we were both 2ds on all wins so far.
Also nice to see Guo Juan playing.

Re: Go Seigen Cup World Women's Championship

Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 4:34 am
by Javaness2
I wonder what the criteria to select the players from each region was.

Re: Go Seigen Cup World Women's Championship

Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 4:40 pm
by trout
Players seeded for 2nd round:

China: Rui Naiwei, Wang Chengxing, Gao Xing
Korea: Choi Jeong, Oh Yujin
Japan: Xie Yimin, Fujisawa Rina
Taipei: He Jiajia

Main tournament(1st round)(tonight);

Yu Zhiying vs Yin Mingming
Zhang Xuan vs Rita Pocsai
Lu Minquan vs Manuela Marz
Ueno Asami vs Yu Jin
Kim Chaeyoung vs Nyu Eiko
Yin Qu vs Feng Yun
Guo Juan vs Oh Jeongah
Li He vs Yang Zixuan

Re: Go Seigen Cup World Women's Championship

Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:52 pm
by Uberdude
Results of the computer tournament at this event: forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&p=230341#p230341

Also Guo Juan lost.
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