Game 2: I think this has to be mid single-digit kyu or lower. I think almost any SDK should know better than to play this, but nothing is impossible.
Game 3: The shoulder hit is a Go Seigen idea, but the followup is weird. No idea how to translate that into an evaluation.
Game 5: I don't read anything that makes the contact not a mistake, and it feels like a bad mistake. Unless there's tricks waiting here, I want to say it's DDK.
Game 8: Is that whatshisname from kgs? 5 or 6 dan? Plays exclusively 6-4? Other than that, I see nothing that tells me the grade of this fuseki.
Re: Fuseki Schmuseki #1
Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 12:21 am
by lorill
John Fairbairn wrote:I do know that many pros have a sort of table in their heads that tells them e.g. if he doesn't know this he can't be 1-dan, or the like, but I regret never having made notes of specific examples.
1. 10 kyu and above. I don't see anything distinctive in it. 2. 15 kyu. 3. Certainly dan level. I've never seen anyone of my level play like this, let alone do so consistently. 4. 10 kyu. 5. Stronger than me. Low amateur dan? 6. 20 kyu. 7. Strong SDK. 8. Dan level, but if the example is representative of the players' style, it's probably not top dan.
Re: Fuseki Schmuseki #1
Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:45 am
by wossname
i could believe any of these openings have been played by pros. i like game 3 in particular, and i am singling that one out as PRO! give another 10 moves and i'll judge more carefully
Re: Fuseki Schmuseki #1
Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 1:35 pm
by judicata
So - just leaving us hanging?
Re: Fuseki Schmuseki #1
Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:47 pm
by topazg
Wow, sorry all, I'd completely forgotten about it - most embarrassing!
I'll post the next 10 moves for each tomorrow or the next day, time dependent.
Re: Fuseki Schmuseki #1
Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 12:51 am
by topazg
Sorry about the delay!
Here are the 8 games again, this time with the first 20 moves.
Player game 1 game 2 game 3 game 4 game 5 game 6 game 7 game 8 dfan 3d 10k 12k 4d 2k 15k 5k 3d zinger - - 9d/pro - - - - - Shaddy - - 9d/pro - - - - - Kirby - 5d - - - - - - tj86430 1d 9k 6k 2k 3d 7k 4k 5d judicata 2d 16k 5d 4k 3d 16k 5k 5d daniel_ts 12k-9d 20k-5k 20k-10k 15k-5k 15k-5k 15k-5k 10k-9d 10k-9d Harleqin 2k 7k 4d 1k 4d 11k 6k 2d Chew Terr 3d 2k 9d/pro 6k 12k 20k 15k 2d Araban 2d-5d 14k-9k 6d-9d 8d-4k 8k-4k 14k-9k 8k-4k 3k-1d hyperpape - 12k-4k - - 10k-19k - - 5d-6d Gresil 10k+ 15k 1d+ 10k 1d+ 20k 4k-1k 1d-6d wossname - - 9d/pro - - - - -
Re: Fuseki Schmuseki #1
Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 1:43 am
by Gresil
I generally agree with my first round guesses.
1. 10k 2. 15k 3. high dan amateur or pro 4. 8-15k 5. dan level (can't quite estimate this one) 6. 20k 7. 2k 8. 2d
The first game confuses me. Most people recognize dan-level play but the top left doesn't look very remarkable for black to me. Not that I have a deep knowledge of whatever it is they're trying to get there.
Re: Fuseki Schmuseki #1
Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 6:09 pm
by Koosh
I might as well give this a try too, even though I wasn't on board from the beginning.
Game 1: Low Dan (1-2dan) Game 2: 10-12kyu. M4 seems a little scared. Game 3: Professional level. Game 4: 4-5dan. Experimental feel to it. Game 5: Professional level. Game 6: 15kyu-20kyu. Game 7: 10-12kyu. Game 8: High dan. 6-7dan.
Honestly, my fuseki drags me down a bit sometimes. I wouldn't be surprised if the games I marked as pro are actually 10kyu.
Re: Fuseki Schmuseki #1
Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 7:31 pm
by hyperpape
Hmm, might have been worth hiding the first round results. If I had more focus, I could refuse to check my guesses against the strong players in the thread, but...
Re: Fuseki Schmuseki #1
Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 4:18 am
by Fredrik
After seeing only the first moves:
1: W is probably trying some tricks, so around ~ 3d 2: 7k 3: W: Chang Hao 4: 2k 5: 5d (Actually I initally put lower-dan, but I try to spread the ranks around as OP probably did that ) 6: 15k 7: 9k 8: 6-7d KGS (seems like some kind of blitz bullshit game ^^)
After update:
1: I stick to 3d 2: I stick to 7k 3: I'm quite positive I've seen the game in question with Chang Hao playing as White. 4: 2k was a bit harsh, but still really hard to judge because of Blacks unorthodox. Perhaps around 5d. 5: White is strong enough to play O3, so it's strong players for sure. 5d+, but I would say around professional. 6: 15k was too mild, 20k. 7: 9-12kish seems reasonable. I stick to 9k. 8: I stick to 6-7d KGS, some blitz game..
Re: Fuseki Schmuseki #1
Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 6:37 am
by tj86430
thanks to the other thread I now know that #3 is pro.
Re: Fuseki Schmuseki #1
Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:43 am
by Harleqin
My guesses after 20 moves:
Game 1: I do not like what White is doing in the upper left. It could still be any strength from 3 kyu to 9 dan, though. I put them at 3 dan now.
Game 2: Moves 7 to 11 look quite clueless to me, move 12 is too close to the rather thick black group, move 14 is too timid. However, the players seem to know about the need for a base and access to the centre. I put them at 6 kyu now.
Game 3: I would have said "somewhere in the strong dan region" and put them at 5 dan for now, but in another thread, this game has been shown as professional.
Game 4: I do not like move 7, since Black already has a (loose) pincer in place, and I do not see why Black does not jump at least once before counterpincering at move 15. Other than that, basic shapes seem to be known, so I put them at 1 dan for now.
Game 5: Move 9 strikes me as odd, but move 18 really looks like a blunder to me. 3 kyu, say I.
Game 6: Completely clueless, board too big. 12 kyu, perhaps.
Game 7: Move 5 and 8 are odd already, but the next 10 moves really show the kyu players. I put them at 5 kyu for now.
Game 8: Black seems to have a plan for the centre, but I am not yet sure whether it is sound. White is quite calm, so I think that these players cannot be too weak. I say 2 dan for now, but I think the next 10 moves will really help in the assessment.
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