Life In 19x19

K1 kills black, I think. BUT if white resigned, then she's winning

Yeah I dunno guys, this was a pretty decisive victory in terms of my opponent's psychology. He didn't see any trick moves to magically kill me. I spent the entire game surrounding him, squeezing him out, and crushing him over and over. He's not gonna pull out the W at that point.

The full story there is that shortly before he resigned, W was trying to revive his dead group in the upper right by breaking through with his center group. He had no eyes and thought his victory hinged on breaking through, so I prevented him from doing that and he resigned.

But I'll take it under advisement, fwiw.

If White plays 11-1 then Black plays 13-1.

The situation is then one where neither has an eye. There are 4 mutual liberties. White has 4 outside liberties, 2 on the second line and two in the centre. The mutual liberties count for the defender in a no eye - no eye fight. So it's seki.

But I'll take it under advisement, fwiw.

It seems both sides missed the status, and White was actually ahead ( based on thread replies ).

With T19 as top right 1-1... J1 is a white stone, and K1 is a black stone
( skipping i-column in coordinates; therefore "11-1" and "13-1" were used in a reply. )

Sorry, I forgot that the I-column doesn't exist, I indeed meant that White plays 11-1. If Black replies with 13-1 then from top to bottom, White has seven dame a, b, c, d, e, f, g.

b, d, e, f are shared.
a, c, g are own.
Black doesn't have own liberties.

After White b, Black a, White d, Black c, White e, Black is in atari and White still has two dame f and g so Black is dead? Am I hallucinating?

jlt wrote:Sorry, I forgot that the I-column doesn't exist, I indeed meant that White plays 11-1. If Black replies with 13-1 then from top to bottom, White has seven dame a, b, c, d, e, f, g.

b, d, e, f are shared.
a, c, g are own.
Black doesn't have own liberties.

After White b, Black a, White d, Black c, White e, Black is in atari and White still has two dame f and g so Black is dead? Am I hallucinating?

No, I was.

Knotwilg wrote:If White plays 11-1 then Black plays 13-1.

White follows with 11-2. Now black has 3 liberties and he needs 4 moves to remove the white outside liberties. Even if it's his turn, isn't he a bit short?

Applebaps wrote:this was a pretty decisive victory in terms of my opponent's psychology. He didn't see any trick moves to magically kill me.

It's always nice when you can score a win against the greedy players lol

I spent the entire game surrounding him

This is how I got to 9kyu

Knotwilg wrote:If White plays 11-1 then Black plays 13-1.

The situation is then one where neither has an eye. There are 4 mutual liberties. White has 4 outside liberties, 2 on the second line and two in the centre. The mutual liberties count for the defender in a no eye - no eye fight. So it's seki.

Yes, I originally thought the same thing, having recently read Richard Hunter's book. Then I read it out and got a different answer. This is the problem with trying to memorise the types: there are lots of twists and turns. Going back to the book: yes, the shared liberties count for the underdog, but the favourite also counts +1 for having shared liberties. So in fact white is one liberty ahead. For what it's worth, I think it's an excellent book with well chosen examples, but if you want to use Hunter's system exactly as presented then you do need to remember all of the details accurately!

Applebaps wrote:At last weekend's meeting of our local Go club, I finally beat the guy I've been training to beat for so long. He has a style that revolves around jealousy and bullying you everywhere on the board. If you leave any diagonal, he'll cut you without reading it out. If you build any influence, he'll jump into it and try to erase it...This last weekend, I did it. In fact, I'd blown so far past him that I was shocked at myself. I could see through everything he was trying to do, could read out fights and come out on top.

Congratulations! It's great to see you making progress and gaining confidence like this!

xela wrote:Going back to the book: yes, the shared liberties count for the underdog, but the favourite also counts +1 for having shared liberties. So in fact white is one liberty ahead. For what it's worth, I think it's an excellent book with well chosen examples, but if you want to use Hunter's the system exactly as presented then you do need to remember all of the details accurately!

Yes, Richard Hunter's book is great. But I find it easier neither to rely upon reading nor memory. White has as many outside liberties as there are shared liberties. If we exchange White's outside liberties for Black's total liberties, we end up with White having 0 outside liberties and Black having 0 total liberties. That may be confusing. So what is the last exchange? 1) White captures Black and then Black fills the last outside liberty? Or 2) Black fills White's last outside liberty and then White captures Black. Black is dead either way. Memory is treacherous if you remember the rule instead of the penultimate position in the fight.

Bill Spight wrote:If we exchange White's outside liberties for Black's total liberties, we end up with White having 0 outside liberties and Black having 0 total liberties. That may be confusing. So what is the last exchange?

Thanks, that's a neat heuristic!

xela wrote:

Bill Spight wrote:If we exchange White's outside liberties for Black's total liberties, we end up with White having 0 outside liberties and Black having 0 total liberties. That may be confusing. So what is the last exchange?

Thanks, that's a neat heuristic!

It's even an algorithm.

kj01a wrote:

Applebaps wrote:this was a pretty decisive victory in terms of my opponent's psychology. He didn't see any trick moves to magically kill me.

It's always nice when you can score a win against the greedy players lol

It is SO sweet, haha. I used to lose all the time to this style. Feels like I'm on the verge of breaking out of my DDK life.

xela wrote:Congratulations! It's great to see you making progress and gaining confidence like this!

Thanks, xela!