[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . X . . . . . X . X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X 5 . 4 3 6 . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X X X 1 2 . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O O X O X X O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . X O O O O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O . . , . . . X O O . . . |
$$ | . . O . X O . . X . . . . X O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
It's also possible that black doesn't answer the way you'd expect with the initial push. Maybe something weird, I dunno - it's not totally clear to me:
$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . X . . . . . X . X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . 2 . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O O X 1 X X O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . X O O O O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O . . , . . . X O O . . . |
$$ | . . O . X O . . X . . . . X O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X b O . X . . . . . X . X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . 9 . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X a . 6 5 7 . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X X 2 3 4 8 . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O O X 1 X X O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . X W W W W X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |[/go]
and friends are down to two liberties. The points a and b are miai, so I think black can't escape being captured. But I don't think of this as tesuji, white is playing fairly blunt moves. Or have I missed something better?
Re: Tsumegos from real games
Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 4:12 am
by xela
Tsumego 4, minor detail of move order:
$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . b 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . W . 5 4 0 8 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X W a 3 O 1 X O . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X X O 6 X O O 2 O . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . X O O . 7 X X O . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . O O . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . X O X X . X O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . b 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . W . 5 4 0 8 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X W a 3 O 1 X O . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X X O 6 X O O 2 O . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . X O O . 7 X X O . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . O O . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . X O X X . X O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
at a. If black omits , then white can play b and save the stones.
Re: Tsumegos from real games
Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 6:15 am
by jlt
Re: tsumego 3. Here is Katago's analysis.
Suppose first that White pushes, Black blocks and White cuts.
$$Wc The four black stones are captured
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . X . . . . . X . X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . 7 5 6 . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X X 2 3 4 . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O O X 1 X X O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . X W W W W X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . X . . . . . X . X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . 6 . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . 5 . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X X 2 3 4 7 . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O O X 1 X X O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . X W W W W X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |[/go]
However, before blocking, Black may want to make the exchange K14-L13 first, in which case the above variations don't work anymore, so White has to play differently. Black has to extend at otherwise the preceding variations work again, and then captures the cutting stone K12 in a ladder.
$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . X . . . . . X . X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . 6 . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X X 4 . . 2 5 . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O O X 1 X X O 3 . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . X W W W W X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . X . . . . . X . X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . 6 . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X X 4 . . 2 5 . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O O X 1 X X O 3 . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . X W W W W X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |[/go]
xela wrote: But I don't think of this as tesuji, white is playing fairly blunt moves.
I know these moves are blunt, but because my reading is too shallow, I couldn't see that a succession of 7 blunt moves actually works. That's one of the reasons why I am a kyu player...
Re: Tsumegos from real games
Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 6:30 am
by jlt
Tsumego 4, analysis by Katago:
Suppose White cuts with as in Kirby's and xela's posts, then White loses somes stones but ends in sente: after , Black needs to play "a".
$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . 9 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . 5 4 . 0 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O a 3 O 1 X O . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X X O 6 X O O 2 O . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . X O O . 7 X X O . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . O O . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . X O X X . X O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . 9 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . 5 4 . 0 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O a 3 O 1 X O . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X X O 6 X O O 2 O . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . X O O . 7 X X O . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . O O . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . X O X X . X O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
So White won't bother cutting at and plays as follows:
$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . 7 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . 5 4 . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . 3 O 1 X O . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . X O O 2 O . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . X O O 9 . X X O . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . O O . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . X O X X . X O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . 7 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . 5 4 . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . 3 O 1 X O . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . X O O 2 O . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . X O O 9 . X X O . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . O O . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . X O X X . X O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
Re: Tsumegos from real games
Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2020 8:48 am
by jlt
Tsumego #5: An easy one but I didn't take the trouble to read it during the game.
White to play. Assume White is alive. What is the status of the black group?
$$Wc
$$ ----------------
$$ O O X . . . . . |
$$ O X X X X . . . |
$$ O O O O O X X X |
$$ . O O . O O O O |
[go]$$Wc Ko, white takes first
$$ ----------------
$$ O O X . 3 4 1 . |
$$ O X X X X . 2 . |
$$ O O O O O X X X |
$$ . O O . O O O O |[/go]
Re: Tsumegos from real games
Posted: Sat May 09, 2020 3:57 am
by jlt
Tsumego #6: Black to play. Can Black kill a group?
$$Bc Black to play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . O O . O X . X X O X O O . . |
$$ | . O X O O O X O O X . . O X . X O . . |
$$ | O X O O X X X X X , . . . X X X . O . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . X . O . . . X O O |
$$ | . X . . X . O O O . X O . . . . X O X |
$$ | . . X O . O . X O X O . . O O X . X . |
$$ | . X O . . . O X O X . O O . O O X . X |
$$ | . X O . O . O O X X . X O O X X X X O |
$$ | X O O X O X . . . , . X O X . X . O . |
$$ | . X . O O X . O . . . . X . X X . O . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . X X X X O O O . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . X . X X O O O O X . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . O X O . . . O X O O . |
$$ | . X O X . X . X X O . . O X . X X X . |
$$ | . X X O . . X . O , O . O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O X . X O . O X O . X . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . O X X X O O X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bc Black to play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . O O . O X . X X O X O O . . |
$$ | . O X O O O X O O X . . O X . X O . . |
$$ | O X O O X X X X X , . . . X X X . O . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . X . O . . . X O O |
$$ | . X . . X . O O O . X O . . . . X O X |
$$ | . . X O . O . X O X O . . O O X . X . |
$$ | . X O . . . O X O X . O O . O O X . X |
$$ | . X O . O . O O X X . X O O X X X X O |
$$ | X O O X O X . . . , . X O X . X . O . |
$$ | . X . O O X . O . . . . X . X X . O . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . X X X X O O O . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . X . X X O O O O X . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . O X O . . . O X O O . |
$$ | . X O X . X . X X O . . O X . X X X . |
$$ | . X X O . . X . O , O . O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O X . X O . O X O . X . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . O X X X O O X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Re: Tsumegos from real games
Posted: Sat May 09, 2020 6:04 am
by Harleqin
Like this probably:
$$Bc Black to play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . O O . O X . X X O X O O . . |
$$ | . O X O O O X O O X . . O X . X O . . |
$$ | O X O O X X X X X , . . . X X X . O . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . X . O . . . X O O |
$$ | . X . . X . O O O . X O 3 a . . X O X |
$$ | . . X O . O . X O X O 1 . O O X . X . |
$$ | . X O . . . O X O X 2 O O . O O X . X |
$$ | . X O . O . O O X X . X O O X X X X O |
$$ | X O O X O X . . . , . X O X . X . O . |
$$ | . X . O O X . O . . . . X . X X . O . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . X X X X O O O . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . X . X X O O O O X . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . O X O . . . O X O O . |
$$ | . X O X . X . X X O . . O X . X X X . |
$$ | . X X O . . X . O , O . O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O X . X O . O X O . X . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . O X X X O O X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bc Black to play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . O O . O X . X X O X O O . . |
$$ | . O X O O O X O O X . . O X . X O . . |
$$ | O X O O X X X X X , . . . X X X . O . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . X . O . . . X O O |
$$ | . X . . X . O O O . X O 3 a . . X O X |
$$ | . . X O . O . X O X O 1 . O O X . X . |
$$ | . X O . . . O X O X 2 O O . O O X . X |
$$ | . X O . O . O O X X . X O O X X X X O |
$$ | X O O X O X . . . , . X O X . X . O . |
$$ | . X . O O X . O . . . . X . X X . O . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . X X X X O O O . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . X . X X O O O O X . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . O X O . . . O X O O . |
$$ | . X O X . X . X X O . . O X . X X X . |
$$ | . X X O . . X . O , O . O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O X . X O . O X O . X . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . O X X X O O X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
If 2 captures, 3 at a.
Re: Tsumegos from real games
Posted: Sat May 09, 2020 8:33 am
by jlt
It seems that this is the correct , but White can play differently and get a ko.
Re: Tsumegos from real games
Posted: Sun May 10, 2020 2:54 pm
by Harleqin
Oh.
$$Bc Black to play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . O O . O X . X X O X O O . . |
$$ | . O X O O O X O O X . . O X . X O . . |
$$ | O X O O X X X X X , . . . X X X . O . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . X 7 O 2 . . X O O |
$$ | . X . . X . O O O . X O . 4 3 . X O X |
$$ | . . X O . O . X O X O 1 6 O O X . X . |
$$ | . X O . . . O X O X 5 O O . O O X . X |
$$ | . X O . O . O O X X . X O O X X X X O |
$$ | X O O X O X . . . , . X O X . X . O . |
$$ | . X . O O X . O . . . . X . X X . O . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . X X X X O O O . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . X . X X O O O O X . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . O X O . . . O X O O . |
$$ | . X O X . X . X X O . . O X . X X X . |
$$ | . X X O . . X . O , O . O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O X . X O . O X O . X . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . O X X X O O X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bc Black to play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . O O . O X . X X O X O O . . |
$$ | . O X O O O X O O X . . O X . X O . . |
$$ | O X O O X X X X X , . . . X X X . O . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . X 7 O 2 . . X O O |
$$ | . X . . X . O O O . X O . 4 3 . X O X |
$$ | . . X O . O . X O X O 1 6 O O X . X . |
$$ | . X O . . . O X O X 5 O O . O O X . X |
$$ | . X O . O . O O X X . X O O X X X X O |
$$ | X O O X O X . . . , . X O X . X . O . |
$$ | . X . O O X . O . . . . X . X X . O . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . X X X X O O O . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . X . X X O O O O X . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . O X O . . . O X O O . |
$$ | . X O X . X . X X O . . O X . X X X . |
$$ | . X X O . . X . O , O . O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O X . X O . O X O . X . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . O X X X O O X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Re: Tsumegos from real games
Posted: Fri May 22, 2020 8:29 am
by jlt
This one should be easy.
Problem #7: White to play and win the capturing race.
$$Wc White to play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X O O O X X X X O O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X X . O X O O X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , X O X O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O O O O X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O X X . O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O O O X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X X X X O O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O O X O X O . X O O X |
$$ | . . . X O . . . O X . X O . O X O X . |
$$ | . . X O . O O O X X . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . X O . X X O X O . O O O O O O O . |
$$ | . . X O . . . X X O . . X X X X O . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . X . O X . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . X O , O X . . . O . . O X X O . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O X X X O . X O X O O . . . |
$$ | . X . X . O X . X O X . X . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . X O . . . X O O . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Wc White to play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X O O O X X X X O O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X X . O X O O X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , X O X O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O O O O X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O X X . O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O O O X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X X X X O O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O O X O X O . X O O X |
$$ | . . . X O . . . O X . X O . O X O X . |
$$ | . . X O . O O O X X . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . X O . X X O X O . O O O O O O O . |
$$ | . . X O . . . X X O . . X X X X O . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . X . O X . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . X O , O X . . . O . . O X X O . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O X X X O . X O X O O . . . |
$$ | . X . X . O X . X O X . X . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . X O . . . X O O . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]