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White 8 is bad

https://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=2877

Page 2 of 2

Re: White 8 is bad

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:44 am
by ethanb
Guess it's my turn. Start of a recent game on IGS that I found interesting:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Re: White 8 is bad

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 2:32 pm
by Dusk Eagle
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 , . . . . . , . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . a 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Heh, the difference between having and not having those star points is quite drastic to me.

Anyway, :b1: through :w4: all seem pretty natural. After that I agree that :b5: is the biggest area, but I would have probably approached at 'a' (may be a style thing). If white attached underneath, below seems like a good result:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . 1 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

White can obviously choose a different joseki, but the one above (and it's sister variation where black plays the solid connection for :b4:) are by far the most common, and black doesn't mind switching it up.

Black could also play the avalanche like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 7 O 4 . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 2 . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . 1 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

I prefer the other way, but I can't say this is bad.

What I don't like is :b7:. This seems like it is asking white to separate you into two groups. Falling back with a two-space extension seems like a better move. I can't find any examples of this move in pro play (using DailyJoseki.com).

Either :w8: or attaching on the head of one of the two stones (for a leaning attack) seems best. My vague feeling says that :w8: is best, but I don't feel strong enough to accurately assess it.

Re: White 8 is bad

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:59 pm
by ethanb
Dusk Eagle wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 , . . . . . , . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . a 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Heh, the difference between having and not having those star points is quite drastic to me.

Anyway, :b1: through :w4: all seem pretty natural. After that I agree that :b5: is the biggest area, but I would have probably approached at 'a' (may be a style thing). If white attached underneath, below seems like a good result:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . 1 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

White can obviously choose a different joseki, but the one above (and it's sister variation where black plays the solid connection for :b4:) are by far the most common, and black doesn't mind switching it up.

Black could also play the avalanche like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 7 O 4 . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 2 . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . 1 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

I prefer the other way, but I can't say this is bad.

What I don't like is :b7:. This seems like it is asking white to separate you into two groups. Falling back with a two-space extension seems like a better move. I can't find any examples of this move in pro play (using DailyJoseki.com).

Either :w8: or attaching on the head of one of the two stones (for a leaning attack) seems best. My vague feeling says that :w8: is best, but I don't feel strong enough to accurately assess it.


Thanks, didn't notice the star points were missing. Guess I've got another little thing to fix in Quarry before tagging a new version for release. :)

I was white, and I agree that 8 was best, as it left miai for which stone to attack. But when I played a 3-space low pincer on top he moved out immediately. I think that was a mistake, but I think he could have done better, and maybe the sequence up to 8 isn't as horrible as it seems for black.

If I were black, I'd look at this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X 9 4 6 1 . 2 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . 3 5 7 0 . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Re: White 8 is bad

Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 7:44 pm
by Chew Terr
I would appreciate a look at the opening of this game, if the offer's still open? It's something a bit different than my normal (Kobayashi) fuseki, and was actually my first game in a few weeks.

SGF:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]BL[807.869]
;W[fp]WL[888.781]
;B[hr]BL[801.561]
;W[gs]WL[878.016]
;B[ii]BL[767.669]
;W[jk]WL[872.859]
;B[ki]BL[756.258]
;W[lk]WL[866.15]
;B[lp]BL[724.047]
;W[in]WL[855.345]
;B[io]BL[714.131]
;W[jn]WL[848.466]
;B[mp]BL[698.232]
;W[nq]WL[845.878]
;B[mm]BL[630.557]
;W[nk]WL[835.759]
;B[lh]BL[594.539]
;W[lf]WL[816.001]
;B[oj]BL[574.154]
;W[mi]WL[810.571]
;B[mh]BL[568.613]
;W[ni]WL[800.196]
;B[oi]BL[499.331]
;W[nh]WL[795.747]
;B[mf]BL[498.275]
;W[me]WL[778.458]
;B[oh]BL[484.868]
;W[kj]WL[768.913]
;B[lr]BL[412.51]
;W[lq]WL[764.489]
;B[kq]BL[407.26]
;W[mr]WL[762.313]
;B[kr]BL[393.837]
;W[ko]WL[757.074]
;B[kp]BL[391.66]
;W[np]WL[753.602]
;B[jo]BL[359.853]
;W[kn]WL[737.32]
;B[ob]BL[295.767]
;W[nb]WL[733.338]
;B[kf]BL[260.709]
;W[le]WL[729.284]
;B[lg]BL[230.436]
;W[pn]WL[704.741]
;B[pm]BL[210.234]
;W[on]WL[680.016]
;B[na]BL[190.415]
;W[ma]WL[676.522]
;B[oa]BL[184.755]
;W[lb]WL[674.181]
;B[qp]BL[130.721]
;W[pq]WL[668.881]
;B[sr]BL[116.829]
;W[qr]WL[665.571]
;B[no]BL[94.69]
;W[qm]WL[658.006]
;B[rm]BL[44.534]
;W[qo]WL[649.378]
;B[rn]BL[38.234]
;W[om]WL[640.998]
;B[pl]BL[18.15]
;W[mn]WL[624.914]
;B[ol]BL[30]OB[5]
;W[nl]WL[618.552]
;B[mo]BL[30]OB[5]
;W[ln]WL[609.716]
;B[ie]BL[30]OB[5]
;W[of]WL[564.15]
;B[og]BL[30]OB[5]
;W[pe]WL[560.949]
;B[qe]BL[30]OB[5]
;W[oe]WL[558.835]
;B[qf]BL[30]OB[5]
;W[ok]WL[535.539]
;B[pk]BL[30]OB[5]
;W[hb]WL[532.227]
;B[eb]BL[30]OB[5]
;W[db]WL[529.098]
;B[da]BL[30]OB[5]
;W[ca]WL[525.57]
;B[ea]BL[30]OB[5]
;W[bb]WL[522.722]
;B[bk]BL[30]OB[5]
;W[bj]WL[519.264]
;B[aj]BL[30]OB[5]
;W[ai]WL[515.951]
;B[ak]BL[30]OB[5]
;W[bh]WL[508.886]
;B[ro]BL[30]OB[5]
;W[je]WL[491.133]
;B[jf]BL[30]OB[5]
;W[oc]WL[487.236]
;B[qb]BL[30]OB[5]
;W[hc]WL[481.515]
;B[gd]BL[30]OB[5]
;W[id]WL[477.236]
;B[he]BL[30]OB[5]
;W[ef]WL[472.301]
;B[eg]BL[30]OB[5]
;W[ee]WL[467.498]
;B[nj]BL[30]OB[5]
;W[mj]WL[460.619]
;B[nn]BL[30]OB[5]
;W[nm]WL[452.94]
;B[jj]BL[30]OB[5]
;W[ij]WL[441.915]
;B[ji]BL[30]OB[5]
;W[ff]WL[431.7]
;B[gf]BL[30]OB[5]
;W[ec]WL[425.453]
;B[fb]BL[30]OB[5]
;W[fi]WL[366.16]
;B[gh]BL[30]OB[5]
;W[gj]WL[354.252]
;B[ke]BL[30]OB[5]
;W[kd]WL[350.384]
;B[po]BL[30]OB[5]
;W[oo]WL[346.091]
;B[li]BL[30]OB[5]
;W[lj]WL[342.59]
;B[hn]BL[30]OB[5]
;W[hm]WL[338.898]
;B[gm]BL[30]OB[5]
;W[gl]WL[334.278]
;B[dn]BL[30]OB[5]
;W[dl]WL[327.469]
;B[cl]BL[30]OB[5]
;W[do]WL[325.441]
;B[co]BL[30]OB[5]
;W[hs]WL[321.665]
;B[is]BL[30]OB[5]
;W[gc]WL[313.989]
;B[fd]BL[30]OB[5]
;W[cs]WL[295.85]
;B[bs]BL[30]OB[5]
;W[ig]WL[291.031]
;B[kg]BL[30]OB[5]
;W[ds]WL[288.708]
;B[ga]BL[30]OB[5]
;W[gb]WL[285.41]
;B[ha]BL[30]OB[5]
;W[ia]WL[281.352]
;B[fa]BL[30]OB[5]
;W[jb]WL[280.087]
;B[hi]BL[30]OB[5]
;W[nf]WL[255.247]
;B[mg]BL[30]OB[5]
;W[ls]WL[252.292]
;B[ks]BL[30]OB[5]
;W[ms]WL[244.924]
;B[hj]BL[30]OB[5]
;W[ik]WL[242.338]
;B[rs]BL[30]OB[5]
;W[qs]WL[238.842]
;B[sq]BL[30]OB[5]
;W[df]WL[233.888]
;B[fh]BL[30]OB[5]
;W[ek]WL[225.502]
;B[od]BL[30]OB[5]
;W[nd]WL[222.125]
;B[qo]BL[30]OB[5]
;W[ss]WL[210.505]
;B[ib]BL[30]OB[5]
;W[ic]WL[207.232]
;B[rs]BL[30]OB[5]
;W[qd]WL[195.727]
;B[rd]BL[30]OB[5]
;W[ss]WL[193.215]
;B[im]BL[30]OB[5]
;W[hl]WL[186.232]
;B[rs]BL[30]OB[5]
;W[fo]WL[180.966]
;B[ho]BL[30]OB[5]
;W[ss]WL[177.147]
;B[fs]BL[30]OB[5]
;W[fr]WL[173.635]
;B[rs]BL[30]OB[5]
;W[ir]WL[170.161]
;B[jr]BL[30]OB[5]
;W[js]WL[164.889]
;B[cb]BL[30]OB[4]C[Chew [3k\]: =(
]
;W[is]WL[130.851]
;B[cc]BL[30]OB[4]
;W[cd]WL[125.899]
;B[bc]BL[30]OB[4]
;W[bd]WL[123.728]
;B[ba]BL[30]OB[4]
;W[ad]WL[117.951]
;B[ac]BL[30]OB[4]C[numata [2k\]: sory
Chew [3k\]: Eh, my mistake
Chew [3k\]: Well done
]
;W[]WL[81.118]
;B[]BL[30]OB[4]TW[ja][ka][la][ib][kb][mb][kc][lc][mc][ld][md][ae][be][ce][de][af][bf][ag][bg][ah][ch][bi][fk][gk][kk][mk][il][jl][kl][ll][ml][gm][im][jm][km][lm][mm][fn][gn][hn][nn][go][ho][io][jo][lo][mo][no][hp][ip][jp][kp][lp][mp][op][eq][gq][hq][iq][jq][kq][oq][hr][jr][kr][lr][nr][or][pr][es][fs][ks][ns][os][ps]TB[aa][ca][pa][qa][ra][sa][ab][bb][pb][rb][sb][qc][rc][sc][qd][sd][ge][re][se][hf][if][rf][sf][gg][hg][ig][jg][pg][qg][rg][sg][hh][ih][jh][kh][ph][qh][rh][sh][pi][qi][ri][si][pj][qj][rj][sj][rk][sk][al][bl][ql][rl][sl][am][bm][qm][sm][an][bn][cn][sn][ao][so][ap][bp][sp][aq][ar][as]C[Chew [3k\]: Thank you for the game
numata [2k\]: thank you
numata [2k\]: you strong very
numata [2k\]: good by
])
[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Moves 1 to 8
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 , . . . . . , . . . . . 4 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Gah, I had that diagram working a minute ago. Does anyone see what I messed up on the diagram? Mods, if you do, feel free to edit this to fix it.

Re: White 8 is bad

Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 8:27 pm
by Dusk Eagle
Hmm, the problem seems to be that there is a [*go] tag in your sgf, and that is messing up the forum's parsing. I've reposted it here for now.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Moves 1 to 8
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 , . . . . . , . . . . . 4 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Edit: As a workaround, you can add a [/go] tag after your sgf, and that seems to fix it. Or, you could reorder your post so the diagram comes first. I just reported this issue in the Forum/Site Suggestions and Bugs subforum.

Re: White 8 is bad

Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 8:40 pm
by Dusk Eagle
Anyway, regarding the opening, I don't really like :b5: personally. White can still approach the corner and :b5: isn't too effective of a pincer compared to one space closer. I would rather approach or enclose a corner for :b5:.

:w8: I think would do better as a keima. Kosumi seems a bit slow and scared here. If white's that concerned about the corner he probably shouldn't have played a 4-4 in the first place.

Re: White 8 is bad

Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 12:09 am
by Chew Terr
Dusk Eagle wrote:Anyway, regarding the opening, I don't really like :b5: personally. White can still approach the corner and :b5: isn't too effective of a pincer compared to one space closer. I would rather approach or enclose a corner for :b5:.

:w8: I think would do better as a keima. Kosumi seems a bit slow and scared here. If white's that concerned about the corner he probably shouldn't have played a 4-4 in the first place.


Ack, sorry, :w8: was a keima in the game. I accidentally placed it wrong in the diagram. Yeah, the move I was most concerned with was 5, but I really WANTED to like it. =)
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