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Re: The limit is close.
Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 1:29 pm
by judicata
Araban wrote:so in reality I am about mid-dan level...but I'm really 9p, just in my endgame ability.
I'm a 9p in the opening....
insofar as the opening ends at W4.
To the OP: As I suggested to someoen else recently, close your eyes and breathe for 40 seconds or so when you feel yourself getting rushed or frenzied. Another thing that helps me: someone once told me to consider at least two moves every turn (I believe this was attributed to Yang Yilun). Even when playing out basic joseki or connected against an atari of a 25 stone group.
EDIT: corrected misattribution.
Re: The limit is close.
Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 1:39 pm
by balmung
judicata wrote:Araban wrote:balmung wrote:so in reality I am about mid-dan level...but I'm really 9p, just in my endgame ability.
I'm a 9p in the opening....
insofar as the opening ends at W4.
To the OP: As I suggested to someoen else recently, close your eyes and breathe for 40 seconds or so when you feel yourself getting rushed or frenzied. Another thing that helps me: someone once told me to consider at least two moves every turn (I believe this was attributed to Yang Yilun). Even when playing out basic joseki or connected against an atari of a 25 stone group.
you miss quoted but thanks for advice.
Re: The limit is close.
Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 1:54 pm
by daniel_the_smith
balmung wrote:1)The fighting I have been doing lately in horrible games has been local due to tunnel vision and instinct. A local fight is a fight in which it focuses on two or more groups in a specific area, and has no specific influence on the global position on the board. Fights primarily have more of an influence in the specific area they are played rather than the entire board. That is all I'm saying.
2)Teaching is not for anyone. Many college professors who have doc-trites have not teaching ability. Just because you are good at something does not mean you are able to effectively pass your knowledge on to other people. This can be said about Go, and many other arts.
3) congratulations on your 1000th post
1) "How will this fight I'm about to start affect the rest of the board?" "If he/she starts a fight there how will it affect the rest of the board?" Ask yourself these questions before playing.
2) gotcha.
3) thanks
And finally: Araban is just pointing out the absurdity of overly specifically grading one's play in different areas. Don't be mad at him. I think when stronger players say things like "your fighting ability is at level x", they generally mean it as a compliment, and not as a technical assessment of your abilities. From the few simul games I've had vs. pros, they tend to compliment you ("So strong! But what about this?") while completely crushing you. I think if you take such statements as meaning you "fought well in that game" and not that "you are xxx level at fighting" it will be healthier for your game and set more realistic expectations for you.
There is no such thing as being xxx level at one thing and yyy at another. Levels cannot be measured without a bunch of reference games, and every game combines all of your knowledge together. If you go through your games and label one group "fighting" and another group "peaceful" (if you can even do that, mine would be 95% in the fighting category), and calculate your winning percentage in each group, then you could begin to have some sort of meaningful statement about being stronger at fighting. But even that would be a big guesstimate.
Also, go players are not good in general at assessing rating based on play. I think we've proved that over and over here with the "guess the level" threads. So even if a stronger player does mean a statement like "you are xxx level at fighting" literally, they are probably wrong. At the very minimum you should treat that as xxx +/- 5 stones. Which is enough to make it pretty useless.
Re: The limit is close.
Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 1:56 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
The easiest way to improve on this forum is to post a few of your games in the 'game analysis' forum.
Re: The limit is close.
Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 1:59 pm
by daal
balmung wrote: A local fight is a fight in which it focuses on two or more groups in a specific area, and has no specific influence on the global position on the board. Fights primarily have more of an influence in the specific area they are played rather than the entire board. That is all I'm saying.
Are you sure about this?
Re: The limit is close.
Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:05 pm
by daniel_the_smith
Yeah, I meant to comment on that, too. Fights that have only local effects are more commonly and less confusingly called capturing races or life-and-death problems. If they aren't either of those (and sometimes even if they are), then they are definitely having global impact.
Re: The limit is close.
Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:31 pm
by yoyoma
Helel wrote:balmung wrote:and tend to build up my arrogance when playing.
Go is a very complex game and the way one plays it may serve as a mirror to one's personality.
Is arrogance and lack of patience in reality problems of your life rather than of your go? If it is then trying to change the way you play without changing your life, is to put the cart before the horse.
(By the way, the reason Araban don't improve is IMAO that he spends to much time playing silly computer games.)
Hey I'm kinda in a hurry here. Can you just tell me how to get 1 stone stronger without all this life-changing nonsense? I'm kinda busy playing Starcraft2.
Re: The limit is close.
Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:39 pm
by Li Kao
yoyoma wrote:I'm kinda busy playing Starcraft2.
A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of go?
Re: The limit is close.
Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:51 pm
by Aphelion
Hey Balmung, lets play a Malkovich
.
Re: The limit is close.
Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:54 pm
by Solomon
Helel wrote:(By the way, the reason Araban don't improve is IMAO that he spends to much time playing silly computer games.)
Re: The limit is close.
Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:17 pm
by snorri
One of my stranger habits is that I like to look at people's time usage on KGS games. It's the only server I know of that puts these timestamps in, but it only is useful during the main time.
In your last game on KGS under your posted username, the time limits were 1 hour + 5x30 Japanese byoyomi. You were using about 5.5 seconds per move and your opponent about 5.
In another game with 30 minutes main time both you played about 9.5 seconds / move your and opponent around played about 13 seconds / move. (Unfortunately, that game ended in resignation at move 55 and you appeared to lose your temper and accused your opponent of sandbagging.) In the comment you bragged about your life and death skills being a few stones stronger than your rank and because your opponent outplayed you in a corner L&D, something you feel is one of your strong points, you may have felt motivated to make this accusation.
However, when I looked at the problem in question, I would say that aside from just being rude, the accusation did not have technical merit. I suggest you test this by posting the problem in question to goproblems.com and see where the difficultly falls when others try to solve it. This can be a humbling experience. I've done this myself many times and it never fails to motivate me to go back to the basics.
In another 30 minute main time game you resigned at move 138 and you were playing about 4.5 seconds per move as compared to over 7 seconds per move from your opponent. Actually you weren't that far behind for your level, so I'm not sure I understand the resignation.
Now these games were back in mid-September, and people change, so I don't want to harp on it. But I'm thinking two things:
1. Players are often tempted to match their opponent's speed regardless of the time limits. I've seen even high dans fall into this trap.
Some basic math: If an average game takes 240 moves or so (including endgame), you play 120. If it's 30 minutes main time, that's 15 seconds per move and you even finish the game before going into byoyomi most of the time. If you want to play faster, that's fine, but why not choose faster time limits in that case?
2. I'm always skeptical when people claim to have some critical skill that's significantly beyond their playing strength. Fortunately you didn't exactly say reading ability, otherwise I'd suggest that's baloney immediately. Maybe go to wbaduk.com, get an account and go into their "Test Room" web page. This will attempt to break down your skills into these areas:
Pattern
Opening
Haengma
Maek (Tesuji)
Endgame
Middle Game
Life & Death
Judgment
For me, it was a good to remove any kind of vanity about my "mad skills" in any area.
A change in attitude can help you "bring it" to your games, but fantasizing that you already have it and just can't "bring it" may not be the path.
Re: The limit is close.
Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:58 pm
by daniel_the_smith
Nobody does any significant reading in five seconds.
Re: The limit is close.
Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:42 pm
by balmung
snorri wrote:One of my stranger habits is that I like to look at people's time usage on KGS games. It's the only server I know of that puts these timestamps in, but it only is useful during the main time.
In your last game on KGS under your posted username, the time limits were 1 hour + 5x30 Japanese byoyomi. You were using about 5.5 seconds per move and your opponent about 5.
In another game with 30 minutes main time both you played about 9.5 seconds / move your and opponent around played about 13 seconds / move. (Unfortunately, that game ended in resignation at move 55 and you appeared to lose your temper and accused your opponent of sandbagging.) In the comment you bragged about your life and death skills being a few stones stronger than your rank and because your opponent outplayed you in a corner L&D, something you feel is one of your strong points, you may have felt motivated to make this accusation.
However, when I looked at the problem in question, I would say that aside from just being rude, the accusation did not have technical merit. I suggest you test this by posting the problem in question to goproblems.com and see where the difficultly falls when others try to solve it. This can be a humbling experience. I've done this myself many times and it never fails to motivate me to go back to the basics.
In another 30 minute main time game you resigned at move 138 and you were playing about 4.5 seconds per move as compared to over 7 seconds per move from your opponent. Actually you weren't that far behind for your level, so I'm not sure I understand the resignation.
Now these games were back in mid-September, and people change, so I don't want to harp on it. But I'm thinking two things:
1. Players are often tempted to match their opponent's speed regardless of the time limits. I've seen even high dans fall into this trap.
Some basic math: If an average game takes 240 moves or so (including endgame), you play 120. If it's 30 minutes main time, that's 15 seconds per move and you even finish the game before going into byoyomi most of the time. If you want to play faster, that's fine, but why not choose faster time limits in that case?
2. I'm always skeptical when people claim to have some critical skill that's significantly beyond their playing strength. Fortunately you didn't exactly say reading ability, otherwise I'd suggest that's baloney immediately. Maybe go to wbaduk.com, get an account and go into their "Test Room" web page. This will attempt to break down your skills into these areas:
Pattern
Opening
Haengma
Maek (Tesuji)
Endgame
Middle Game
Life & Death
Judgment
For me, it was a good to remove any kind of vanity about my "mad skills" in any area.
A change in attitude can help you "bring it" to your games, but fantasizing that you already have it and just can't "bring it" may not be the path.
the games I was refering to our on my current account. many levels of play have passed since the games you saw.
Re: The limit is close.
Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 12:52 am
by daal
balmung wrote:many levels of play have passed since the games you saw.
But the problems remains the same: you are playing too fast, and you seem to believe that you should be winning games simply because you think you are better. Nobody wins games on merit. You probably could be strong in the areas you mention, but not if you play bad moves and then give yourself the excuse that it was just because you were too emotional and impatient. It is not the player, but the stones they play that decide the game. Humility and respect are not only virtues, but for a go player elements of his strength.
Re: The limit is close.
Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 2:56 am
by topazg
daal wrote:balmung wrote:many levels of play have passed since the games you saw.
But the problems remains the same: you are playing too fast, and you seem to believe that you should be winning games simply because you think you are better. Nobody wins games on merit. You probably could be strong in the areas you mention, but not if you play bad moves and then give yourself the excuse that it was just because you were too emotional and impatient. It is not the player, but the stones they play that decide the game. Humility and respect are not only virtues, but for a go player elements of his strength.
I was going to say "Like", but that's not strong enough. Consider this pointless post a "triple like" of daal's.