Life In 19x19

Another one coming to the party late. I have commented on kyu player's games, where the original joseki is played, that amateurs have no idea how to use the influence from that wall, so that it is more "thinfluence" than strong. I am quite happy to see my opponent playing it, because I expect that he will take an extra move to shore up what he believes is a weakness and thus lose tempo.

Best wishes.

Kirby wrote:

Magicwand wrote:IMO,

influence by itself is useless...

Your response makes sense to me. I can kind of feel how influence is useful when the stones are of the same color, as in the second diagram you copied.

Is there such a thing as "countering" influence? When does this become a good strategy?

for example:
let's say i have continued the joseki (somewhat)
white have influence but do not have any thickness in my opion.
and continued with common and simple variation on right.
now..does that shape help white influence? answer is no.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . X . X X X . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . W . . . . O O O X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . |
$$ | . . . W . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

therefore i will consider playing tengent rather than spliting side. (disclaimer: i am not going to say which move is correct)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . X . X X X . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . W . . . . O O O X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . W . . . . . 1 . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

then if it was black's trun.. how am i going to approach the influence?
let's say black play's tengent. i dont like it.
it seem's like there is only one purpose of limiting white.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . X . X X X . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . W . . . . O O O X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . W . . . . . 1 . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

i would play as below solid move that will give myself thickness instead of streatch thin.
and let him jump into my influence.
then i will grab the flow and attack to get more thickness.
then white's influence will be erased naturally.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . X . X X X . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . W . . . . O O O X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . |
$$ | . . . W . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . 1 . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

i could have comeup with better example given more time...but i think i made my point.
thickness = point.
weakness = -point.
if lack influence or point:
thickness will give you chance for point comeback.
thickness will limit their influence.
on my game against sol..you will see that i try not to reveal any weakness(thick).
therefore i am short on point but i believe i am ok.