Life In 19x19

I counted in both games I played last night, but I usually don't. But I have a hard time keeping track of what I counted in my head, because I'm not used to it. So each time I counted I had to start over from the beginning, e.g. "Was the big area on the bottom 35 points or 45 points?" Unfortunately, I lost one of the games because I got time short and felt rushed; the score was close enough that I might have won if I wasn't time pressured.

My estimating is not very good and my counting is not much better, and it's slow. Which is why I'm trying to do it more. But at the speed I usually play (automatch medium), it seems like it's only borderline worth it.

The other day I played a game and I thought I was behind by about 10, maybe less, so I figured it was worth playing through endgame. I lost by more than 30 and was embarrassed for not resigning. So I resolved to learn to count to avoid that kind of situation.

Lately my games tend to hinge on a large group dying, so counting is pretty much impossible until well out of the middle game. But once the status of everything is determined, I count. I've gotten much better and faster, I'm usually within five points. Basically I count so I know if I should resign or not. If playing with a clock, I count before going into overtime.

DrStraw wrote:

shapenaji wrote:That's a really useful link, I'm going to try some of those counting strategies. Thanks DrStraw for doing this in the first place.

You mean you have only just discovered them! Those were done eight years ago and I haven't even looked as most of them since then.

Indeed, crazy it is, but an accurate, quick count of the game is not my strong suit.
I haven't gone through them all yet, and I imagine I do some of the stuff, but having a good method for counting, rather than ("how do I feel like counting this game today") goes a long way toward speeding up and increasing the accuracy of the count.

There are, afaik, specifically only 2 instances when I don't count:
1. When I'm in byoyomi; too hard to count in overtime. However, if I'm down by more than 20 it's usually easy enough to tell.
2. When I feel it looks "close enough" and simply try to play the best endgame that I can. Definition of close enough is related to the latter sentence in 1.

Actually, now that I think about it, counting may have gotten me in trouble in BOTH of my games last night. In the second game, I judged my opponent to be much weaker both because I was able to push him around, but also because I had a count that showed me way ahead. I started getting lazy and let him almost catch up. I ended up killing a big group because he messed up, and still probably would have won by 10 or so even if I hadn't, but I shouldn't have let it get that close.

Araban wrote:There are, afaik, specifically only 2 instances when I don't count:
1. When I'm in byoyomi; too hard to count in overtime. However, if I'm down by more than 20 it's usually easy enough to tell.
2. When I feel it looks "close enough" and simply try to play the best endgame that I can. Definition of close enough is related to the latter sentence in 1.

When reading this, the first thing that popped into me head after I read the first line and before I read the last two was "when I am ahead and when I am behind"

I don't count. I can't. I have always been very bad at arithmetic. When I count, the numbers get jumbled up in my head and I often end up off by 20 points. My visual estimate sucks, but it's better than that, so that is what I trust.

I count in tournaments but I am not sure it has helped my game that much. I feel that I end up playing moves that are (by my count) just good enough and they often end up not being sharp enough.

I do think that long term it will help my game even if it doesn't right now.

I always count if a) I have the minute or two that it takes and b) I feel that I'm losing. I've noticed that my gut instinct typically underestimates my points by 10-15: thus a feeling that the game is close doesn't warrant a count but a feeling that I'm clearly losing does.

DrStraw wrote:I am not asking if you can count a game, I am asking if you do.

No.

I usually take the lead in the opening, lose it in the middle game, and make a comeback in the end game. If I counted, I might become a) overconfident or b) depressed.

Man, I saw this thread and thought "I'm gonna go automatch myself a game on KGS and count periodically throughout" - naturally I wind up against someone I'd played before who /only plays dramatic overplays/ I lost by time, and I want to blame it on counting, - in retrospect I shouldn't've counted at all, the guy only plays for large victory or dramatic defeat.

I count only when observing games. Funny how that works.

I try to count when I think of it. Sometimes I'm too busy thinking of other things, though. Sometimes I have tunnel vision.

When I first started counting, I would be off by 20 points, and it would take me five minutes to come up with that number. Now, I'm starting to count more and more, and I'm generally accurate to within komi once the endgame starts. I personally feel that just because counting offers no advantage to you when you first start doing it doesn't mean you shouldn't do it - it is only through practice that you will learn how. My opinion may be influenced by reading thorough pro commentaries of games, where the commentator very often makes a case to point out the score and how it affected the players' decisions in the game. Seeing it applied to higher-level games helps me to see the value in it in my own games. If I get good enough at counting, it will also certainly improve my score intuition as well.

ketchup wrote:I count only when observing games. Funny how that works.

I also count when observing games in a tournament. When playing a tournament match or on a turn-based server like DGS and OGS, I only count when the match is close. When playing on KGS and other realtime servers, I almost never count, but I rarely play there these days.