Life In 19x19

Posted: **Sun Jun 12, 2011 5:47 pm**

Usually with triggers, one decides on their move, and then looks at the trigger to see if there are any follow up moves there.

Thus the board now stands like this after the trigger (if no one minds the intrusion).

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

Posted: **Sun Jun 12, 2011 5:51 pm**

How about some coordinates?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

Posted: **Sun Jun 12, 2011 6:03 pm**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . 8 . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

Let me try this tigger thing:

Bill Spight wrote:How about some coordinates?

Bill, anyone is welcome to use coordinates (or not). I prefer markers with no coordinates.

Posted: **Sun Jun 12, 2011 6:20 pm**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm8 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . 4 . X . . . | $$ | . . 1 . . X . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

Accepted!

Nice and easy. Now white takes gote settling :w10:

and I wrack my brain for the biggest way to use :b1:

. My goal was for this game to have a nice, educational bent to it but I can't think of anything particularly insightful yet.
---

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wm8 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . 4 . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . B . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

It's probably worth regarding that in a (comparative) vacuum, both Ed and I played 3rd line, settling (marked) stones. Now I am approached near where I know I have support, I played a 4th line, developmental move. I could try to develop even more aggressively by leaning on white's approach stone to exchange some kind of wall for a strong group on the right (by eg. attaching on top): That is also a way to play. My way is (for the moment) locally more conservative but should lead to a slightly more balanced board.

Posted: **Sun Jun 12, 2011 6:56 pm**

(For beginners, also.) It's beyond my level to evaluate the differences among the following big points for :w10:

:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . e . . . . . . . c . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . d . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , b . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

However, if B took (a) :bs:

first, then later, it'd be more work (and probably suffering) for W at the bottom. For example:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . # . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . 4 . 3 . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . 1 2 . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

So I took (a) myself for :w10:

.

Posted: **Sun Jun 12, 2011 7:01 pm**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wm12 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . X . 1 . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

Trigger:

Beginners:

Posted: **Sun Jun 12, 2011 7:35 pm**

I need to think for a while before picking my next move.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm12 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . c . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . X . 1 . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . . . . a . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

Lots of good options. Three. Three good options. I mostly know b and c with O4 at O3, so my inclination is to play 'a', but I might take this opportunity to look into some joseki.

Posted: **Sun Jun 12, 2011 7:55 pm**

Posted: **Sun Jun 12, 2011 8:47 pm**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm12 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . X . O . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

R8 exchanges my corner for good thickness in gote.

This exchange lends itself to an illustration of the proverb "Do not invite your opponent to make thickness in the opening".

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm12 followed by a b - White playing this now would be disastrous for him. $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 4 . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X b X 2 3 . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . 0 9 a 1 5 . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . 8 7 . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm12 Black pays for his thickness. $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 5 . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . X . 1 . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . . . . 3 . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

I chose to play this second diagram because (1) I want to gain some experience with it and (2) it has a clear relationship with Q16, compared to :b13:

...R3.

PS: I checked my rather meager database, and pros have played :b13:

albeit not with great success.

Trigger:

Posted: **Sun Jun 12, 2011 10:42 pm**

@ Loons: Is there a typo? Your numbers are confusing me. I don't see a :b1:

Posted: **Sun Jun 12, 2011 10:53 pm**

Oops, yeah, I can see how that could be unclear.
I mean this :b1:

:

Posted: **Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:21 am**

@obs

Posted: **Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:13 am**

Posted: **Mon Jun 13, 2011 5:44 pm**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wm12 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 5 . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . X . O . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . . . . 3 . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

Posted: **Mon Jun 13, 2011 6:37 pm**

Obs:

A few pro games had similar or identical boards up to :b13:

(some with even the same move order as ours),
and some (but not all) had :w14:

at 3-3 (a). The variations included, for example,
not having the :wc:

exchange, or not having the :bt:

exchange.
Given the local lower right corner shape, there were games where W played (a)
whether the upper right 4-4 ( :bs:

), or corner presence, was :black:

or

.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bm13 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . # . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . X . O . | $$ | . . W . . X . . B . . . . . . . a . . | $$ | . . . Y . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

Obviously I don't know what the pros were thinking, so my guess is that after :w1:

,
since W cannot live locally, W will have a running group; and 3-3 (a) is big cash by itself:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W Var. 1 $$, . . . . . , . . . | $$. . . . . . . . . . | $$. . . . . . . X . . | $$. . . . . . . . . . | $$. . . . . 1 . O . . | $$. . . . . . . . . . | $$, . . . X . X . O . | $$. . . . . . . 2 . . | $$. . . . . . . . . . | $$. . . . . . . . . . | $$--------------------[/go]

There are trade-offs between vars. 2 and 3, but they seem perfectly playable for both B and W,
so, time to do more thinking:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B Var. 2 $$ ---------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 6 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X 4 . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . . . 3 2 . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W Var. 3 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 1 2 . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O 3 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . X . O . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

Life In 19x19

126. EdLee vs Loons

Re: 126. Loons v. EdLee

Re: 126. Loons v. EdLee

Re: 126. Loons v. EdLee

Re: 126. Loons v. EdLee

Re: 126. Loons v. EdLee

Re: 126. Loons v. EdLee

Re: 126. Loons v. EdLee

Re: 126. Loons v. EdLee