Life In 19x19

Except here the guy is breaking up car windows all across the street and honking their horns and
once an owner comes and puts his car in his garage you threaten to impound it.
Escapers hurt the ranking system on purpose, yet even if it is blatantly obvious, admins do not get involved and derank them.
The priorities are severely broken here. And if it's because you cannot judge if it's on purpose or not, i don't see how you can
distinguish resigning a game because you feel behind or disgusted with the escaper.

Edit:
As a side note there is no way to just invalidate a game, which comes at no loss to the escaper since he cannot enforce a continuation
anyway if he is winning. That would make this and many other issues go away easily.

Wow, so a player may get punished for resigning a game on KGS? OK. Glad I no longer play there.

imabuddha wrote:Wow, so a player may get punished for resigning a game on KGS? OK. Glad I no longer play there.

thats severely out of context.

i agree on the part wms said about resigning an escaped game, you hurt the entire system a bit every time you do so.

the part about resigning on purpose but getting deranked for such an act seems a bit like punishing the wrong person too severly. Maybe you could have those matches completely forfeited or turned into free games or even deleted (invisible) from the server.

imabuddha wrote:Wow, so a player may get punished for resigning a game on KGS? OK. Glad I no longer play there.

If you had a habit of resigning won games, then I also am glad that you no longer play on KGS.

wms wrote:If you had a habit of resigning won games, then I also am glad that you no longer play on KGS.

I had no such habit. However, since resigning is one of the actions a player is entitled to make during their turn then the only effect it should have on rank is the loss of the game. Anything else is just a flaw in the implementation of the ranking system.

Sorry for butting into the discussion.

wms wrote:If you are seen doing this by an admin, you will be deranked. Please do not do it.

Surely, only after one has done it 10 times.

wms wrote:

Li Kao wrote:You should not resign ranked games where your opponent escaped unless you're significantly behind. That hurts the ranking system and prevents the escape counter from counting these games against your opponent.

Yes, exactly. If you are caught throwing a game, you will be deranked. If you can't stand to play somebody then you *SHOULD* escape. Yes, you heard me right, it's better to escape than it is to throw the game. Now if you do this enough to have your escapes turn into forfeits, then you have issues of your own, but certainly if somebody makes a game so unpleasant that you can't finish it (and what they do isn't worth going to an admin over) then just leave. Do *NOT* resign unless you are behind.

What's the difference between a forfit and a resign?

imabuddha wrote:

wms wrote:If you had a habit of resigning won games, then I also am glad that you no longer play on KGS.

I had no such habit. However, since resigning is one of the actions a player is entitled to make during their turn then the only effect it should have on rank is the loss of the game. Anything else is just a flaw in the implementation of the ranking system.

Sorry for butting into the discussion.

I think their is a flaw in your understanding of the ranking system.

once I got so annoyed by escapers that I even put "If you are desperate to win just escape and I will resign" in my info. this helped me a lot not to get so annoyed anymore.
Lately I cannot remember any escapers and the very few jerks I put on ignore with there first abuse. No need to get worked up.

wms wrote:The problem is, topaz, it doesn't just screw up your rating. It screws up the rating of everyone you or the jerk have played. For those other people, I'm sure they would prefer to have a more accurate rating over you getting a game list with no unfinished games. Your statement of "well it's more important to me to have a clean game list" is a little bit honking a loud horn every hour through the night because "it's more important to me to have the hours marked than to get a good night's sleep." Well, sure, for you it may be, but for your neighbors they probably would prefer you learn to deal without always knowing the hour and let them have a quiet night.

If you are seen doing this by an admin, you will be deranked. Please do not do it.

Ok, but if my opponent has escaped, I would appreciate another option, such as just invalidating the game if my opponent has escaped. This would work just as well for me. I actually don't mind whether I'm deranked or not, as rank isn't very important to me. I would consider it poor form to judge resigning games where my opponent has left as worthy of administrative action. I don't have a habit of resigning games where I'm winning for the sake of it, but I would appreciate a way to clear my list without resigning if that was made possible. In the meantime, it's the only way to do it.

Invalidating games enables escapers.

What I dislike is that a third party sees no difference between games I escaped and games that my opponent escaped. I used to dislike playing people when I saw two or three unfinished games--I thought they might be an escaper. Now I think that was a mistake, but I bet some people still act that way.

hyperpape wrote:Invalidating games enables escapers.

What I dislike is that a third party sees no difference between games I escaped and games that my opponent escaped. I used to dislike playing people when I saw two or three unfinished games--I thought they might be an escaper. Now I think that was a mistake, but I bet some people still act that way.

I don't see why it should. If I mark the game as invalid, it becomes "free" and ended by forfeit or no result or whatever, but still exists as a game and my opponent should still be marked as an escaper for that game. I don't see how that enables them at all?

Not to mention that the only alternative to make it go away now, resigning, enables them even more.

What happens if the escaper comes back while you're away and makes another move? Who does the system assume now having escaped the game?

Perhaps the idea of being able to claim a forfeit after a reasonable amount of time (a day or two?), thus clearing up one's game list, could be really helpful. I think it wouldn't hurt the ranking system and most of all it would give people back some control over the situation the escaper brought them into.

ChradH wrote:What happens if the escaper comes back while you're away and makes another move? Who does the system assume now having escaped the game?

Perhaps the idea of being able to claim a forfeit after a reasonable amount of time (a day or two?), thus clearing up one's game list, could be really helpful. I think it wouldn't hurt the ranking system and most of all it would give people back some control over the situation the escaper brought them into.

Yeah, this would work for me too, I'm more than happy waiting a couple of days to clear each game.