Life In 19x19

Laman wrote: ... at International Amateur Pair Go Championship all participants are encouraged to wear their traditional national dress... i don't know about official photos, but here is a sample gallery

Greetings Laman,

Thank you very much for sharing these photos. That is a very wonderful practice on the part of the participants.

Sincerely,
Desmond

Dear Shapenaji,

My exagerated expressions aside, I think that we are largely in agreement with regard to the naturally minimalist aesthetics of the game. It is this quality of an outward simplicity veiling an inward complexity that I find very appealing in Go, as well as the Japanese ambience or for that matter American Shaker furniture. For my part, I do not possess a dedicated room for Go, nor do I wear ceremonial robes while playing. I have found that simply having a clean and empty corner with some floor cushions is perfectly adequate and very suitable to my appreciation for the minimalist style. What I do find lamentable, however, is that so many of the more refined traditional supports that were once not just a possibility, but rather the norm, have been discontinued due to the influence of modernism. I have great admiration for those who take advantage of such supports when they are accessible. They lend a greater dignity to the professional games that we all appreciate and aspire to. Professional Go players do not only play for themselves, they play to instruct and inspire all of us while representing the full possibilities of the beauty and artistry of our game to the world. Perhaps Yoda Norimoto and others who avail themselves of traditional dress have taken this to heart, presenting themselves in a manner that pays homage to ther cultural heritage, while also showing respect for the game, their opponent, and themselves.

Sincerely,
Desmond

Desmond wrote:Dear Shapenaji,

My exagerated expressions aside, I think that we are largely in agreement with regard to the naturally minimalist aesthetics of the game. It is this quality of an outward simplicity veiling an inward complexity that I find very appealing in Go, as well as the Japanese ambience or for that matter American Shaker furniture. For my part, I do not possess a dedicated room for Go, nor do I wear ceremonial robes while playing. I have found that simply having a clean and empty corner with some floor cushions is perfectly adequate and very suitable to my appreciation for the minimalist style. What I do find lamentable, however, is that so many of the more refined traditional supports that were once not just a possibility, but rather the norm, have been discontinued due to the influence of modernism. I have great admiration for those who take advantage of such supports when they are accessible. They lend a greater dignity to the professional games that we all appreciate and aspire to. Professional Go players do not only play for themselves, they play to instruct and inspire all of us while representing the full possibilities of the beauty and artistry of our game to the world. Perhaps Yoda Norimoto and others who avail themselves of traditional dress have taken this to heart, presenting themselves in a manner that pays homage to ther cultural legacy, while also showing respect for the game and even fo their opponent.

Sincerely,
Desmond

I think we agree that there is value in the ritual, I think I place less value in it than you do.

I wonder if it's the influence of modernism or simply of convenience? Ritual can get out of hand, and become a burden rather than a guide. I think Japan still struggles with ferreting out those rituals which are valuable from those which were overly constrictive.

The Tao of Shiva if you will, sometimes things must be destroyed in order to create anew.

As John Fairbairn pointed out, there are many obvious utilitarian reasons to not wear traditional dress regularly.

I guess I just don't feel that Japanese professionals' choices in dress necessarily reflect an absence of traditional aesthetic. There is still, I think, an appreciation for the beauty of the traditional forms.

But it's like a Japanese Wedding, are they gorgeous to behold? certainly, but when my older brother got married in Japan, I was somewhat relieved that I couldn't make it out there for the formal ceremony, and would have to content myself with pictures (they had another ceremony in the states for their friends and family here)

This discussion reminds me of the golfer Payne Stewart--there was something about his "traditional" style dress that I thought conveyed (and instilled) a heightened respect for the game. A most untimely and unfortunate death.

EDIT: (just to add an example: http://www.life.com/image/1218915 )

The ascription of "pomp and circumstance", or even tradition, to Japanese players wearing Japanese clothes is often due to people looking at Japan through chrysanthemum-tinted glasses. Whilst it is true that if, say, a player becomes a Honinbo, he is likely to turn up at the accession ceremony in Japanese dress as a nod to the long history of the title, for the most part they are merely showing their age-old genius for absorbing what they think is best from different cultures. They also change with the times. All very sensible, and nothing new.

If you look at photos of famous games played almost a century ago, you will typically see the players sitting on the floor in Japanese garb, while others (sponsors, commentators but also other players) would be sitting watching on chairs, and would be dressed in what was then western garb - suits and wing-collar shirts with co-respondents' shoes. The reporters would also use a fountain pen instead of a calligraphy brush. And we may safely assume they (and the players) got to the venue by car or train, not by being carried in a palanquin.

For most people, in the days before ubiquitous air conditioning, Japanese clothing could offer practical advantages. Perhaps for go players specifically, the advantages were greater in days when games required marathon sessions at the board, or just felt more natural in the countryside venues where major games were played for quietness. There was also the very practical point in those days that western clothing was usually rather more expensive.

Apart from increasing western cultural influence, there were also events that had a major impact on fashion. A fire in a Tokyo department store in the 1920s supposedly led to many deaths of people dressed in Japanese clothes who could not quickly access ladders and stairs. This appears to have changed attitudes almost overnight. Even earlier there were experiences such as the first train in Japan. Dignitaries were invited for the first trip, and took off their sandals as they boarded the carriage, as they would when entering any room. But they were highly disconcerted when the train chugged off, leaving their footwear behind.

Nowadays, most Japanese, going with the flow, find western-style clothing more practical and cheaper, and their homes may even be westernised, too (at least one room with a sofa, maybe a fixed bed, maybe hardwood floors. But they happily revert to yukatas in the evening or on holiday at the spa. It is natural. They are certainly not feeling the need to appear in a period piece just for the sake of sentimental westerners, though we might envy them their ability to have the best of both worlds.

Slightly off topic, the concern that today's generation is abandoning the traditions and values of its elders is probably as old as time. Just recently there was an interesting editorial in the Economist about the riots in Britain, specifically about the idea that they are the result of recent tearing of moral fiber. My favorite quote: "it is melancholy to find that some parents are not ashamed to confess that children of seven or eight years old are entirely beyond their control" from 1898.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/bagehot/2011/08/civil-disorder-and-looting-hits-britain-0


@Laman: you probably meant keikogi (or just gi), not kimono. Some martial arts also have hakama. A kimono is something more formal.

Dear John,

Thank you for sharing your insights. There are just a few concluding remarks that I would like to make on this subject. All of your comments are based upon a utilitarian view of various elements of culture which are presented in terms of their function but to which no intrinsic meaning is ascribed, a meaning which in my perspective is derived from tradition. By this term I am not referring not to a mere custom, but that element within which resides the spirit of a civilization, and which is manifested in all elements of life when the civilization has not yet experienced a degradation. This is not to dismiss the functional aspect of things, but rather to witness within them the secondary aspect of symbolism. Such is not a rosy-eyed view of the past but rather an appreciation of the intrinsic genius of a civilization which is becoming ever more inaccessible through the deleterious effects of modernism and a passivity toward the prevailing zeitgeist, what you referred to as keeping up with the times. The modern architecture of the current incarnation of the Nihon Ki-in building in contrast to its original design can be taken as a representative illustration of the degradation that is being considered here and which extends even into the domain of something as simple as one's clothes. Yet despite this simplicity, one should not lose sight of the importance of the vestamentary art as a testament to the character and individuality of a people and as an expression of beauty, both of which are lost in the ubiquitous assimilation of all things western and modern.

Sincerely,
Desmond

Um. Helel, some of us read the forums in places where we really don't want to be surprised by that sort of thing. Please modify your post.

Edit: mod sniped!

koreans wearing traditional attire is very common during solar and lunar new year.
other than new years it is very strange to wear them.

Helel wrote:... if the image is more explicit than PG-13 or may cause controversy it will probably be removed.

...I wouldn't have thought it violated the forums PG-13 standard. ...

Prudes.

All I'm sayin' is, have pity on those of us employed in countries not as enlightened as your own...

Just put a "NSFW" disclaimer before the hide tag.

I see obscene things here all the time: goban, jubango, kifu, moku, iPad...

Where are the mods when you need them?