141. emerus (1d) vs Laman (1d)

User avatar
Laman
Lives in gote
Posts: 655
Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 10:24 pm
Rank: 1d KGS
GD Posts: 0
KGS: Laman
Location: Czechia
Has thanked: 29 times
Been thanked: 41 times
Contact:

Re: 141. emerus (1d) vs Laman (1d)

Post by Laman »

topazg:
topazg wrote:@Laman:

Did you consider the following approaches in the lower right? Which do you prefer?


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Diagram 16-1
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . B . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . c . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . a b . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

hmm, a is by far and large my favourite komoku kakari, so i didn't consider other alternatives at first. it should be more flexible than b, and i play c only rarely, when i need an easy back-up plan against opponent's pincer (the jump to sansan), but to be honest, i can't give you any strong reasons why a should be better, nor i can claim very strongly that it is better at all.

nevertheless, i am currently leaning towards playing on the left side. so few moves and so hard deciding already... i don't wonder that old masters could play a single game for days and weeks

PS: however weird looked black's G6 at first, i can feel it working now, limiting me and spreading black's influence. very refreshing idea
Spilling gasoline feels good.

I might be wrong, but probably not.
User avatar
topazg
Tengen
Posts: 4511
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:08 am
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Location: Chatteris, UK
Has thanked: 1579 times
Been thanked: 650 times
Contact:

Re: 141. emerus (1d) vs Laman (1d)

Post by topazg »

@Laman:

Fair enough :) I think, in that position, I'd probably play "c", as if you get pincered, it doesn't stop the top right 3-3 being invaded, and the san-san joseki can't be that bad for White. You still might get pincered if you approach high, but I guess the theory is so well thrashed out for it that there's plenty of plans to be had for that too.

PS I've seen that G6 in quite a few Takemiya games. I think Araban once posted in a thread about the purpose of the move, but I can't seem to find it.
emerus
Lives in gote
Posts: 577
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 5:28 pm
Rank: Fox Tygem 6d
GD Posts: 0
KGS: emerus
Tygem: emerus
OGS: emerus
Has thanked: 22 times
Been thanked: 36 times

Re: 141. emerus (1d) vs Laman (1d)

Post by emerus »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Move #13
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . B . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


I'm still trying to play off of my 3-4 in a way as they are usually the focus of fuseki. This prepares to pincer any approach made on the lower right.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Move #12
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . b . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . x . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . x . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . x . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


These other options are pretty straightforward but leave the right side very easy for white to play on.
User avatar
Laman
Lives in gote
Posts: 655
Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 10:24 pm
Rank: 1d KGS
GD Posts: 0
KGS: Laman
Location: Czechia
Has thanked: 29 times
Been thanked: 41 times
Contact:

Re: 141. emerus (1d) vs Laman (1d)

Post by Laman »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Move #14
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . W . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

hmmm, either is emerus as good as Lee Sedol, or he has the same game in his database as i have. although black 13 at the star point would still look better to me. now i could pretend to be Cho Hanseung and play the wedge at a, which is a reasonable move, and emerus would have to deviate from the pro game because Cho had won, but we are here supposed to play go, not a chicken game, so i try something else.

after much deliberation i decided that even after the usual kakari at b black can get good profit from pincering me (for example by a one space low pincer), where any joseki giving him position facing right side means success for black in my opinion, so i opted for virtually unpincerable two space high approach in the end. i don't mind giving him corner and part of the lower side, right side is important

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Diagram 19-1
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . B . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . b . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

PS: i hope i haven't switched to my scared mode, as sometimes happens to me when facing situation i am not comfortable in
Spilling gasoline feels good.

I might be wrong, but probably not.
emerus
Lives in gote
Posts: 577
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 5:28 pm
Rank: Fox Tygem 6d
GD Posts: 0
KGS: emerus
Tygem: emerus
OGS: emerus
Has thanked: 22 times
Been thanked: 36 times

Re: 141. emerus (1d) vs Laman (1d)

Post by emerus »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Move #15
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


I still plan to pincer if he tries helping his group.

:( I need to make better posts but I'm just drawing blanks when it comes to Go.
User avatar
Laman
Lives in gote
Posts: 655
Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 10:24 pm
Rank: 1d KGS
GD Posts: 0
KGS: Laman
Location: Czechia
Has thanked: 29 times
Been thanked: 41 times
Contact:

Re: 141. emerus (1d) vs Laman (1d)

Post by Laman »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Move #16
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . O W . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Spilling gasoline feels good.

I might be wrong, but probably not.
User avatar
Loons
Gosei
Posts: 1378
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:17 am
GD Posts: 0
Location: wHam!lton, Aotearoa
Has thanked: 253 times
Been thanked: 105 times

Re: 141. emerus (1d) vs Laman (1d)

Post by Loons »

I assume this is what Emerus was alluding to, which I'm sure we've all happened past on Kogo's at some point.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm16
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 4 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . X . . . . . . . 3 O 1 . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . 2 B . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


I prefer either of the following variations, I think.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm16
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . O 3 . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . 1 B 4 . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm16
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . O 2 . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . 1 B . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . 3 4 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . . 5 X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Of course, I'm slow at posting and Laman chose the first diagram... My thought is that making a somewhat symmetrical weak group with black's may not be the best strategy.
Revisiting Go - Study Journal
My Programming Blog - About the evolution of my go bot.
emerus
Lives in gote
Posts: 577
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 5:28 pm
Rank: Fox Tygem 6d
GD Posts: 0
KGS: emerus
Tygem: emerus
OGS: emerus
Has thanked: 22 times
Been thanked: 36 times

Re: 141. emerus (1d) vs Laman (1d)

Post by emerus »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Move #17
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . B X . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Move #16
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . X . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . . a X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


I like this picture, in my opinion, the threat of being surrounded at A is weak because the bottom is not easy to grow.
User avatar
Laman
Lives in gote
Posts: 655
Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 10:24 pm
Rank: 1d KGS
GD Posts: 0
KGS: Laman
Location: Czechia
Has thanked: 29 times
Been thanked: 41 times
Contact:

Re: 141. emerus (1d) vs Laman (1d)

Post by Laman »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Move #18
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . X . . . . . . . W O O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

no real choice, giving black hane at the head of two stones would be too big. if he plays on the bottom, i am happy, if on the right, i should be good enough
Spilling gasoline feels good.

I might be wrong, but probably not.
emerus
Lives in gote
Posts: 577
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 5:28 pm
Rank: Fox Tygem 6d
GD Posts: 0
KGS: emerus
Tygem: emerus
OGS: emerus
Has thanked: 22 times
Been thanked: 36 times

Re: 141. emerus (1d) vs Laman (1d)

Post by emerus »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Move #19
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . X . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
User avatar
Laman
Lives in gote
Posts: 655
Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 10:24 pm
Rank: 1d KGS
GD Posts: 0
KGS: Laman
Location: Czechia
Has thanked: 29 times
Been thanked: 41 times
Contact:

Re: 141. emerus (1d) vs Laman (1d)

Post by Laman »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Move #20
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . X . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . W X X . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

had a busy day, didn't get to PC until now
this is of vital importance locally (compare with black playing here) and strong sente against the corner (otherwise w P4 seals black in). i am still undecided what to do next
Spilling gasoline feels good.

I might be wrong, but probably not.
emerus
Lives in gote
Posts: 577
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 5:28 pm
Rank: Fox Tygem 6d
GD Posts: 0
KGS: emerus
Tygem: emerus
OGS: emerus
Has thanked: 22 times
Been thanked: 36 times

Re: 141. emerus (1d) vs Laman (1d)

Post by emerus »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Move #21
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . X . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . B . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
User avatar
Loons
Gosei
Posts: 1378
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:17 am
GD Posts: 0
Location: wHam!lton, Aotearoa
Has thanked: 253 times
Been thanked: 105 times

Re: 141. emerus (1d) vs Laman (1d)

Post by Loons »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . X . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . 1 . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . . . c . B . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Aiming at a and b, to a lesser extent, c? A fighting fuseki, huh...
Revisiting Go - Study Journal
My Programming Blog - About the evolution of my go bot.
User avatar
Laman
Lives in gote
Posts: 655
Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 10:24 pm
Rank: 1d KGS
GD Posts: 0
KGS: Laman
Location: Czechia
Has thanked: 29 times
Been thanked: 41 times
Contact:

Re: 141. emerus (1d) vs Laman (1d)

Post by Laman »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Move #22
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . X . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . W . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

i had a hard time deciding whether to play here or invade upper right corner:

if black plays R15, he has a big and secure corner, with extension along one side. my four stones group can get a base on the right side or jump to the center, so it is not so urgent to settle it immediately

on the other hand, an invasion generates new thickness for black, so he can easily compensate for points lost in the corner. it also affects negatively my 4 stones and reduces prospects of me pincering black's upper side keima kakari. and my jump affects black floating group a bit, by limiting its possibilities to run

i am not thoroughly satisfied by the board's position, but we will see
Spilling gasoline feels good.

I might be wrong, but probably not.
emerus
Lives in gote
Posts: 577
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 5:28 pm
Rank: Fox Tygem 6d
GD Posts: 0
KGS: emerus
Tygem: emerus
OGS: emerus
Has thanked: 22 times
Been thanked: 36 times

Re: 141. emerus (1d) vs Laman (1d)

Post by emerus »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Move #23
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . X . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . O . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Move #22
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X b . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . T . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . T . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . X . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . O . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . c . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Here are my jumbled thoughts. A is my first idea as it's vital for both sides, seems to make the top interesting if black gets it and less interesting if white does. The :et: points on the left are also very big so I want to play in a way so I get that 'last' big opening point. The secure profit at B just doesn't sit right with me. The entire shape on the right would seem inefficient. Also there is at least one chapter in "Come up to Shodan" urging us kyus to invite the 3-3 invasion.
Post Reply