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Re: Settle this argument for me
Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 5:50 am
by Tommie
KGO wrote:Me and my roomate played a game and in review this position came up. My opinion is that it's favorable for white, while he smugly remarked he'd "take black all day". It almost came to blows. Please settle this argument for us.
Do you prefer black or white on this board?
The board:
http://i.imgur.com/3SJZh.jpgEDIT: Black has sente.
$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . g O f . . . . . . . . y . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . O O b . O X . O y . |
$$ | . . O , O . . X . O X X O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . O X O X . . a X . . 1 X . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . q . X O . . |
$$ | . . . c . d . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . z . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . z . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X z z |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . X O O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
- Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . g O f . . . . . . . . y . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . O O b . O X . O y . |
$$ | . . O , O . . X . O X X O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . O X O X . . a X . . 1 X . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . q . X O . . |
$$ | . . . c . d . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . z . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . z . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X z z |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . X O O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I prefer Black and had to settle first the weak point on the upper side with
, A or B. (this determines the F/G-, resp. A- aji)
White's points are limited in the z- and y-areas (the upper right corner is not (yet) white territory).
Black's points are vulnerable in the q-area.
And ... the only answer is retrieved in playing it out (getting several results? = Monte Carlo method)
Re: Settle this argument for me
Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:39 am
by entropi
With so many unfinished shapes and leakages, I would be surprised if black can make more than 50 points out of that framework.
Whites upper left territory alone is about 40 points, plus the lower right territory, plus something in the upper side (as an extension to upper left), plus something on the right side.
On the other hand, black has the lower left, but if for turning it into real territory, I suppose he has to give white some power towards the centre, which can then be used for further reducing the centre. I think the faith of white's 4-4 stone in the lower left corner will be the key for this game. As white, I would immediately extend it towards the centre.
But that was a sdk comment which shouldn't be taken seriously anyway
Re: Settle this argument for me
Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 9:57 am
by oren
Araban wrote:In a lot of cases, yeah. However I feel this is a situation where knowledge of the players' strength does play a role due to the difficulty of properly handling a moyo.
However, if it's simply worded as would you rather be black or white, it's a lot simpler.
