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Re: #142: hailthorn011 v.s. 1986
Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:29 pm
by 1986
take your time every move counts in go
Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 7:01 pm
by EdLee
mafidufa,
My point to 1986 was he probably meant to say he did not like W to get this
shape (or
moyo ):
$$W
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$WBecause his move
(
) did not "stop W from playing
":
$$W
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$WBut globally, W(a) feels a bit early to me,
because (a) is clearly not the biggest area right now.
$$Bm6
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bm6Locally, something like this may happen; it's a fight:
$$W
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$WOther ideas for
include: (a) attach, (b) kosumi, (c) tenuki...
-- your nobi feels a bit heavy to me.
$$W
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$WSo, read, read, read...
mafidufa wrote: how to do numbers over 10, is there a faq post for making these diagrams?
Create another diagram to continue over move 10. See also
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=226
Re: #142: hailthorn011 v.s. 1986
Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 9:06 am
by hailthorn011
$$Bcm6 Prisoners:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm6 Prisoners:
Happy day! I finally figured out where I wanted to play! And why, might you ask? Because. The Sanrensei focuses on gaining easy access to the center, and I know this because I love using this opening. It's fun. So I was thinking to myself this morning, "if I were black, what move would I hate for
to make?" And
(although it's marked
for some odd reason) was the move that struck me.
A stronger player will likely look at this move and scoff and laugh at me. Oh well, laugh. I probably deserve it!
But this is the best move I could think of. If it works, it'll be great. If it fails, well, I might have to look for a new day job (jk).
In all seriousness, I like the thought of this move. It *could* prevent the whole idea behind the Sanrensei, but we'll see.
Re: #142: hailthorn011 v.s. 1986
Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 5:49 pm
by 1986
$$Bcm9 Prisoners:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm9 Prisoners:Hailthorn011- this is move number 9- we gotta get these numbers going back correct now your move is number 10
Re: #142: hailthorn011 v.s. 1986
Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 6:13 pm
by hailthorn011
I agree. It got weird lol. Hopefully the move numbers stay accurate this time.
Re: #142: hailthorn011 v.s. 1986
Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 7:21 pm
by 1986
i agree
Re: #142: hailthorn011 v.s. 1986
Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 11:54 am
by hailthorn011
$$Bcm9 Prisoners:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm9 Prisoners:
Ha! He fell for it! My intention with
was NOT to create a moyo on the left side, but to disrupt his central influence by playing the tengen. Being very familiar with the Sanrensei will probably pay off for me here. Now he's given me a weak stone to strike and I can therefore strengthen all of my
stones in the local area. This works out perfectly because if I can keep sente, I can target his right side after gaining far more than
will gain him.
I thought about how I wanted to approach this situation, and
seems like the best possible option for me because I can remove his base of operations in that area and keep him having to fight to stay alive.
I'm almost giddy. This is going to be a fun game! I hope I don't sound arrogant or anything. 30% of me is almost positive I've overlooked something, but at this point, I'm willing to go with what I've said. I think I can heavily disrupt is opening and get a stronger position on this board.
Cue the Imperial March, my friends!
Re: #142: hailthorn011 v.s. 1986
Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 12:35 pm
by Loons
I would have played the one point jump, as I'm sure many of us would. This tewari is possibly the best explanation I can come up with as to why.
$$Bcm1 Prisoner: I AM NOT A NUMBER I'M A FREE MAN
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner: I AM NOT A NUMBER I'M A FREE MANI feel a bit like the players have been preoccupied with top.
Re: #142: hailthorn011 v.s. 1986
Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 1:38 pm
by 1986
$$Bcm11 Prisoners:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners:
Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 1:57 pm
by EdLee
hailthorn011 wrote: I can therefore strengthen all of my
stones in the local area.
(For beginners.) To the contrary, the
-
exchange immediately hurts BOTH
and
.
Now W needs to add a local move like (a) to help
:
$$W
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$WLocally, either
(b) kosumi or Loons'
(c) jump is better than
:
$$Bm9
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bm9
Re: #142: hailthorn011 v.s. 1986
Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 2:38 pm
by hailthorn011
$$Bcm11 Prisoners:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners:
I knew a part of me had a bad feeling about jumping to conclusions. Things like this can be a tad disheartening. I guess that's why I shouldn't open my big mouth so much.
Oh well. For everything I saw, I didn't see
. Curse my Kyuish blindness.
Well, from now on, I think I'll make my comments a bit more reserved. Not sure what to do here, so I'll just play what feels right to my feeble brain. It's probably wrong. I feel positive now that my last move was an absolute mistake. I'm worried about K16 but I think I'll concern myself with that later.
This month has been horrible to me in my gameplay. I doubt this game is going to improve that either unless I somehow gain an insight that has been absent since this month began. I dunno. Every time I think I play a brilliant move, it turns out to be utter garbage. Why can't it work the other way around? *sigh* Go can be an unforgiving game.
So yeah, I'm definitely concerned now. But I'll see how it plays out for the next 10-20 moves. I Had a bad feeling about battling against the Sanrensei, but I thought my familiarity with it might give me an advantage. Definitely wrong there. But I'm not giving up just yet. But this does look pretty bad for
. Hardly any settled points. B has a lot of influence even with me playing tengen. How could I have missed this on my last move?
Re: #142: hailthorn011 v.s. 1986
Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 3:31 pm
by lightvector
For anyone, including players:
$$W Shoulder hit, black's top side is reduced.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$W Shoulder hit, black's top side is reduced.Shoulder hits are diagonal contact plays that come from above (farther from the edge). They induce the opponent to strengthen himself and take territory, but by coming from above, they build influence and keep the opponent from expanding. This makes them good at reducing frameworks.
$$Bcm9 Armpit hit
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm9 Armpit hitThe move in the game is an "armpit hit" because it comes from underneath (closer to the edge). Armpit hits are often bad. They also induce the opponent to block and strengthen himself, but by coming from below instead of above, they give away influence instead of building it. They are usually played to eke out a few small points in places where the opponent is already very strong, so that making him a bit stronger doesn't matter. Such as in the endgame, or during an invasion when it is good enough just to make immediate life.
1986 wrote: never ignore a shoulder hit (go proverb)
If you are on the receiving end of either type of move, the very first move you should think of in response is to block or press it.
$$W Block the diagonal contact
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$W Block the diagonal contact
Re: #142: hailthorn011 v.s. 1986
Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:29 pm
by 1986
$$Bcm13 Prisoners:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm13 Prisoners:
i know im doing too much, i have high ambitions right
,
but really the purpose of this move is to ask the question what side do you want?
A or B
after he answers, i can better play my next move with a global view
$$Bcm13 Prisoners:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm13 Prisoners:
Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 5:35 pm
by EdLee
For players and all,
lightvector wrote: $$W Shoulder hit, black's top side is reduced.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$W Shoulder hit, black's top side is reduced.In this case, B replying on the 3rd line seems submissive. Instead, B can consider to attack:
$$W Shoulder hit may come under attack.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$W Shoulder hit may come under attack.Because: the
group is already settled, and B is thick at
.
So the first job of
is to split
from its friends.
Next B can consider nobi (a) or wedge (b). But to attack or not depends on the rest of the board.
Perhaps the following is a better example:
$$W
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$W
Re: #142: hailthorn011 v.s. 1986
Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 5:40 pm
by hailthorn011
$$Bcm13 Prisoners:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm13 Prisoners:
I played this move more for the fun of it, than anything else. I'm not entirely sure how to respond to
so instead of worrying about it, I'm going for fun over accuracy. If it's good, good. If it's bad, oh well. Either way, I'm interested in seeing how this goes.
( 
) did not "stop W from playing 
":
include: (a) attach, (b) kosumi, (c) tenuki... 
-- your nobi feels a bit heavy to me.
to make?" And 
(although it's marked 
for some odd reason) was the move that struck me.
But this is the best move I could think of. If it works, it'll be great. If it fails, well, I might have to look for a new day job (jk).
will gain him.
seems like the best possible option for me because I can remove his base of operations in that area and keep him having to fight to stay alive.
.
Oh well. For everything I saw, I didn't see 
. Curse my Kyuish blindness.
.
so instead of worrying about it, I'm going for fun over accuracy. If it's good, good. If it's bad, oh well. Either way, I'm interested in seeing how this goes.