Life In 19x19

tchan001 wrote:Similar to the tip in my tidbit

The key is to derive the answer based on your own effort and not worry about whether it is right or wrong. After careful consideration to arrive at your final answer, check the model answer along with the variations and failures to see what you might have missed.

And I've heard different advice from other strong players. I think your advice is in the minority.

oren wrote:

tchan001 wrote:Similar to the tip in my tidbit

The key is to derive the answer based on your own effort and not worry about whether it is right or wrong. After careful consideration to arrive at your final answer, check the model answer along with the variations and failures to see what you might have missed.

And I've heard different advice from other strong players. I think your advice is in the minority.

It's not my advice. It's paraphrased from Korean Baduk Classic Life and Death Drills which is written by Li Ang 李昂 and Li Yue 李月. Notice that Li Ang is definitely a pro.

oren wrote:And I've heard different advice from other strong players. I think your advice is in the minority.

Might be one of the reasons why western Go is so weak =P

I just second what GoGameGuru said. I had to learn this the hard way since the actual advice to brute-force the solution and never look at the answer was giving to me, too, at the very start of my Go career. Luckily I rejected it a couple of weeks later.

tchan001 wrote:

oren wrote:And I've heard different advice from other strong players. I think your advice is in the minority.

It's not my advice. It's paraphrased from Korean Baduk Classic Life and Death Drills which is written by Li Ang 李昂 and Li Yue 李月. Notice that Li Ang is definitely a pro.

If you have no Sensei near by, there is no one who can tell you "right" or "wrong".
Without any feedback, you will have difficulties to learn.

So looking at the solution makes sense. Under the precondition that you evaluated the pros and cons of the variations as far as you were able to do. And sometimes a bit further.

SoDesuNe wrote:

oren wrote:And I've heard different advice from other strong players. I think your advice is in the minority.

Might be one of the reasons why western Go is so weak =P

Except this has been heard from Asian pros...

oren wrote:

SoDesuNe wrote:

oren wrote:And I've heard different advice from other strong players. I think your advice is in the minority.

Might be one of the reasons why western Go is so weak =P

Except this has been heard from Asian pros...

@Oren, what was their advice exactly?

@Ruben, under 10s for most problems, but don't force yourself to go too fast. You'll notice you naturally get faster as you become more familiar with shapes and patterns. After awhile you'll see the strongest move instantly and your reading will be faster because you make better use of miai and shapes that you know the conclusion of already (e.g. probably most people don't have to read every move when they atari a second line stone to the edge of the board - it's like that). You'll still get plenty of practise reading move by move as you take on new, harder problems and you'll refine your understanding of patterns when you make assumptions that don't work in special cases (e.g. shortage of liberties).

gogameguru wrote:
@Oren, what was their advice exactly?

Spend some time on the problems and try to figure it out. When you're done look at the answers. The idea of getting problems to study by yourself with no answers to look at afterwards seems rather pointless to me when there are plenty of good problem books with answers out there.

oren wrote:

gogameguru wrote:
@Oren, what was their advice exactly?

Spend some time on the problems and try to figure it out. When you're done look at the answers. The idea of getting problems to study by yourself with no answers to look at afterwards seems rather pointless to me when there are plenty of good problem books with answers out there.

But you do realize that we all here emphasised this very point ourselves? ^^ I thought you meant exactly the opposite :o

I also thought oren was defending the reverse. A very odd day

The key is to derive the answer based on your own effort and not worry about whether it is right or wrong. After careful consideration to arrive at your final answer, check the model answer along with the variations and failures to see what you might have missed.

oren wrote:Spend some time on the problems and try to figure it out. When you're done look at the answers. The idea of getting problems to study by yourself with no answers to look at afterwards seems rather pointless to me when there are plenty of good problem books with answers out there.

Maybe oren was lost by the construction of my English. But essentially they are talking about the same thing.