Life In 19x19

Araban wrote:... In this regard it makes sense for their policy to discuss about what admins can or can't do regarding escapers in their policy because it pertains to one of their responsibilities.
...

I think one problem is that some people have a misconception of what a KGS admin's responsibilities are. They might assume that an admin is there for the purpose of dealing with such matters. But I guess this misconception is cleared up on a case-by-case basis, so it's not really a big deal.

The current system works even without a TOS in this regard:
1.) User complains about an escaper to the EGR or to an admin.
2.) Admin says the system deals with it automatically.
3.) User finds out what KGS policy is.

I disagree with the point that adding more clarification to the TOS is not useful, however (although the quoted statement is not the right wording, probably). I think that the more (accurate) information that's added to the TOS, the better. But it is also not something worth getting worked up about (to me), because of the other benefits that KGS has.

Araban wrote:Anyways, if you disagreed with me on all of this, it is nonetheless unreasonable to expect the comment "We don't care about escapers and will not expend any of our valuable time and energy addressing such inconsequential issues. If escapers bother you, then KGS is not the server for you and you should go somewhere else to play." to be put into the KGS TOS. To me, it's a loaded statement that's more opinion than fact and brings off bad vibe.

If I read Bill's response to SpongeBob correctly, it seems to be an "opinion" that he shares. Bill doesn't want to hear about escapers, admins don't want to hear about escapers, you don't want to hear about escapers, I don't want to hear about escapers. If players can't deal with escapers, they need to find another go server – plain and simple. Why is stating this such a bitter pill to swallow? It's already been publicly expressed by the proprietor of KGS, so what's the big deal?

I agree my version is too crass, so how about consolidating what's already been publicly accepted and acknowledged into a single unambiguous KGS statement on escapers:

"Admins don't deal with escaping, the system does. Hopefully occasional escapes are something you can deal with, if not, well, then I guess you do need to go to a different go server."

By the way, disagreement is a good thing and not a bad thing.

wms wrote: ...admins don't help you chew your food if you eat as you are logged in to KGS...

Just wait until you hear what special stuff we're having for dinner tonight at my house, you just might change your mind.

(um, we're having Mexican)

I just wish that escaped games would automatically count as a loss unless the other persona agrees to suspend play.

deja wrote:Why couldn't you just state, "Hopefully occasional escapes is something you can deal with, if not, well, then I guess you do need to go to a different go server" on the KGS page?

Does anyone really need an explicit statement? When you go into a shop, do you see a big sign saying "We offer goods and services. If you don't like them, you need to go to a different shop"? No. Some things we should have worked out while we were still in junior school.

KGS policy is what it is, and the operators of the service are happy with it. I'm sure they also know some people don't like the policy, but they're OK with that too. Can't we leave this issue alone?

Jedo wrote:I just wish that escaped games would automatically count as a loss unless the other persona agrees to suspend play.

This would be an ideal scenario for me.

singular wrote:

Jedo wrote:I just wish that escaped games would automatically count as a loss unless the other persona agrees to suspend play.

This would be an ideal scenario for me.

Wouldn't this cause problems with connection failures?

Andrea wrote:Can't we leave this issue alone?

Apparently not... http://lifein19x19.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7220#p7220

Jedo wrote:I just wish that escaped games would automatically count as a loss unless the other persona agrees to suspend play.

I really agree with this. Bad connection? Try another day or play unrated. bah

Although I suppose that this could conceivably add a distortion to the rating system, if too many users with bad connections persist in playing rated games, getting dropped, and therefore losing. But I doubt this would really happen.

As for deja .. I lean toward agreeing with wms, your mood kinda sounds like the guy in your avatar.

zinger wrote:As for deja .. I lean toward agreeing with wms, your mood kinda sounds like the guy in your avatar.

Yeah, you're probably right. I can be cranky at times but not in this thread. For some people, presentation matters more than substance. I tend to lean toward the latter. But I do like zingers - they're yummy.

Jedo wrote:I just wish that escaped games would automatically count as a loss unless the other persona agrees to suspend play.

There's a server for that (flyordie).

Jedo wrote:... automatically ... unless ...

the unless part tends to nullify the automatic part.

Araban: True, but I would ideally like to combine that escaper policy with a server as large and with as many features as KGS.

Xed_over: I just mean that the standard thing to do would be to count it as a loss, unless something is agreed upon to say otherwise.

deja's posts was quite long, so I didn't read all of it. However I updated the help page that I think he referred to.

Javaness wrote:deja's posts was quite long, so I didn't read all of it. However I updated the help page that I think he referred to.

That's perfect, Javaness. It's simple, clear and removes ambiguity.