Life In 19x19

Joaz Banbeck wrote:How can anyone make a guess on this when the hardware is not announced?

gogameguru wrote:OK, here are the details: http://gogameguru.com/man-machine-showd ... game-go/...

...which says

...Zen19 is sporting a dual 6-core Xeon X5680 (overclocked to 4.2Ghz)...

Ok, it is just a hopped up dual core PC. I'm betting on Tromp 3-0.

Zen's normal hardware: http://computer-go.org/pipermail/comput ... 04390.html

Zen's creator apparently thinks that this version will be half a stone to one stone weaker than the version playing on KGS. If that's the case, then the big issues will be how it performs at longer time limits, whether it's actually earned its KGS rank, and whether Tromp knows of weaknesses to exploit.

Joaz Banbeck wrote:

Joaz Banbeck wrote:How can anyone make a guess on this when the hardware is not announced?

gogameguru wrote:OK, here are the details: http://gogameguru.com/man-machine-showd ... game-go/...

...which says

...Zen19 is sporting a dual 6-core Xeon X5680 (overclocked to 4.2Ghz)...

Ok, it is just a hopped up dual core PC. I'm betting on Tromp 3-0.

Nope. It's a dual-processor PC, with 6 cores each. That totals 12 cores

I made a reddit post, Redditors please go upvote:
http://www.reddit.com/r/boardgames/comm ... eiqibaduk/

shortened link:
http://bit.ly/xokGWK

Does anyone have a good idea of how strong Tromp is? Iirc when he made the bet he was 1d, but is stronger now. He has only played 1 tournament in the EGD in the last decade as a decent 2d (2231) and that was in 2005. If that's an accurate representation of his current strength I think I'd have to bet on Zen now.

flOvermind wrote:... It's a dual-processor PC, with 6 cores each. That totals 12 cores

Ooops, I misread. Thanks. I'm changing my vote to a narrow win for Tromp, probably 3-2.

i think i can say for sure that for next 20 years...computer will not beat me.
computer go is improving rapidly but...it gets harder to improve one stone at this point.

Computers can already beat you, I think :p

maybe at blitz but I have not heard of any computer getting to 4dan when playing with a reasonable time limit.

illluck wrote:Computers can already beat you, I think :p

may be 9x9
not on 19x19

speedchase wrote:maybe at blitz but I have not heard of any computer getting to 4dan when playing with a reasonable time limit.

This whole thread is about a bot (Zen19N) that is 4d playing 20+5x:30, which I consider very reasonable.

Zen19S also plays 20+5x:30 and is a stronger 4d (graph is 5d today but that is due to drift, it hasn't played since September). Zen19S uses a bigger/faster computer than Zen19N.

Magicwand wrote:

illluck wrote:Computers can already beat you, I think :p

may be 9x9
not on 19x19

Definitely on 9x9. They're at professional level there.

On 19x19, with 20 + 5x:30 time limits, Zen plays at 4d on KGS using a cluster of machines. The machines have been getting better by more than one stone a year for four years now.

I have almost zero doubt that a computer will be able to beat you in ten years.

I was under the impression that the zen bots play 10 second blitz, however I see that you are correct.

Magicwand wrote:i think i can say for sure that for next 20 years...computer will not beat me.
computer go is improving rapidly but...it gets harder to improve one stone at this point.

In 20 years the top programs running on the best hardware will be able to beat anybody. And if the trend continues, that hardware will be Chinese.

We'll see. Zen has to beat Tromp first .