Go ç¢
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Jsiegert
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Re: Go ç¢
Spotty internet kept me from playing a game today. Did a few 9x9 games to exercise some life and death scenarios. Also tsumego. Should be back on track tomorrow.
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Jsiegert
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Re: Go ç¢
Today's game:
Went in feeling tired and unfocused. Tried to rise to the occasion and buckle down. Failed. Morale was destroyed. Didn't play smart. Just an awful spectacle.
Well, my rank has remained intact past the "margin for error", so I'll set a new short term goal for 16K by the end of April. Also enacting a new guideline: no Go on the weekend. Tsumego certainly, but no games. Use the weekend to digest new concepts.
EDIT: Going to buying "Graded Go Problems for Beginners Vol. 3" this week. Made good progress with volume 2. Still considering "Opening Theory Made Easy".
Went in feeling tired and unfocused. Tried to rise to the occasion and buckle down. Failed. Morale was destroyed. Didn't play smart. Just an awful spectacle.
Well, my rank has remained intact past the "margin for error", so I'll set a new short term goal for 16K by the end of April. Also enacting a new guideline: no Go on the weekend. Tsumego certainly, but no games. Use the weekend to digest new concepts.
EDIT: Going to buying "Graded Go Problems for Beginners Vol. 3" this week. Made good progress with volume 2. Still considering "Opening Theory Made Easy".
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Jsiegert
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Re: Go ç¢
Todays game:
My victory was only by mistakes of my opponent. Review will highlight my own shortcomings. Already thinking I should have played within his wide open left side early on. Will review at later date.
My victory was only by mistakes of my opponent. Review will highlight my own shortcomings. Already thinking I should have played within his wide open left side early on. Will review at later date.
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karaklis
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Re: Go ç¢
A few ideas:
14 (j19): This move on the first line is very small. You had luck that black answered that. But even for endgame move it would have been wrong. You would have set on h19 with the threat to invade at the top. If B blocked at g19, W can protect at j19. In order to stop W from invading B has to add another move at f18 or g18, otherwise W would atari at g18. That would be sente in endgame. But at this stage of the game there are much bigger points. As this seems to become a moyo game, the interesting area is at the border of the moyos, so around j14 seems an interesting spot, or capping at k6, or even around tengen looks good.
16 (l18): No need to protect there before B plays j17. You can make a big play elsewhere.
18 (k16): Your idea was probably to enlarge your moyo. You don't have to be so timid, just jump further, e.g. to k15 (aiming at h14).
20 (p3): While this is certainly a big move, it may be considerable to cap at n5, threatening a big moyo. (same applies to move 22)
24 (o3): This only threatens one black stone. Black should ignore and expand his moyo, e.g. by capping at p10 or around o7. These are also the better options for white at move 24.
28 (q7): Good!
40 (p5): Doesn't achieve anything. Locally o6 would have been better. This ataris the three black stones. If black connects, white can double-atari at n5, so black would probably abandon the three stones. But there are better global options. E.g. the bottom left corner cries for being invaded.
42 (p4): Small. Saves just one useless stone.
44 (p1): Small endgame move. White can ignore black's n1 and go for something bigger.
46 (j14): Much better. Would have even been better if white had m9 instead of o1.
76 (j13): No need to protect here, because if black captures the two white stones in atari, white can immediately recapture and the g13 group would still have been connected. So instead of j13 go on with your reduction, e.g. at d13.
84 (g15): Doesn't achieve anything. You cannot cut black here. The bottom left corner still wants to be invaded.
94 (f9): Black says thankyou here. If you want to launch a heavy center fight, extend at g9. If not, just connect at f13.
98 (d11): Small and bad shape (empty triangle). c13 would be bigger locally (aiming for b16).
154 (c2): Alas, this invasion comes too late. White should not be able to live there
14 (j19): This move on the first line is very small. You had luck that black answered that. But even for endgame move it would have been wrong. You would have set on h19 with the threat to invade at the top. If B blocked at g19, W can protect at j19. In order to stop W from invading B has to add another move at f18 or g18, otherwise W would atari at g18. That would be sente in endgame. But at this stage of the game there are much bigger points. As this seems to become a moyo game, the interesting area is at the border of the moyos, so around j14 seems an interesting spot, or capping at k6, or even around tengen looks good.
16 (l18): No need to protect there before B plays j17. You can make a big play elsewhere.
18 (k16): Your idea was probably to enlarge your moyo. You don't have to be so timid, just jump further, e.g. to k15 (aiming at h14).
20 (p3): While this is certainly a big move, it may be considerable to cap at n5, threatening a big moyo. (same applies to move 22)
24 (o3): This only threatens one black stone. Black should ignore and expand his moyo, e.g. by capping at p10 or around o7. These are also the better options for white at move 24.
28 (q7): Good!
40 (p5): Doesn't achieve anything. Locally o6 would have been better. This ataris the three black stones. If black connects, white can double-atari at n5, so black would probably abandon the three stones. But there are better global options. E.g. the bottom left corner cries for being invaded.
42 (p4): Small. Saves just one useless stone.
44 (p1): Small endgame move. White can ignore black's n1 and go for something bigger.
46 (j14): Much better. Would have even been better if white had m9 instead of o1.
76 (j13): No need to protect here, because if black captures the two white stones in atari, white can immediately recapture and the g13 group would still have been connected. So instead of j13 go on with your reduction, e.g. at d13.
84 (g15): Doesn't achieve anything. You cannot cut black here. The bottom left corner still wants to be invaded.
94 (f9): Black says thankyou here. If you want to launch a heavy center fight, extend at g9. If not, just connect at f13.
98 (d11): Small and bad shape (empty triangle). c13 would be bigger locally (aiming for b16).
154 (c2): Alas, this invasion comes too late. White should not be able to live there
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Jsiegert
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Re: Go ç¢
Thank you once again for looking at my game Karaklis. Seems a lot of my mistakes were centered around making endgame moves midgame and being to timid in engaging. The move you suggested at 40 is one that I would like to be able to see at a glance. I'll have to set up some situations to play with.
Played two games today:
It's almost more fun when you know you are in over your head at the start. Not much to say about it other than the fact that it was just amusing. Played around trying to expand with broad connections.
I made some bulky shapes on the right, but i thought that they served a purpose worth achieving. Managed to thwart the corner invasion thanks to his mistake. Will review deeper.
EDIT: ordered "Graded Go Problems for Beginners Vol. 3"
Played two games today:
It's almost more fun when you know you are in over your head at the start. Not much to say about it other than the fact that it was just amusing. Played around trying to expand with broad connections.
I made some bulky shapes on the right, but i thought that they served a purpose worth achieving. Managed to thwart the corner invasion thanks to his mistake. Will review deeper.
EDIT: ordered "Graded Go Problems for Beginners Vol. 3"
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Celebrir
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Re: Go ç¢
Some thoughts about the last game:
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Jsiegert
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Re: Go ç¢
Thank you for reviewing Celebrir. My opening moves at this point are largely wild stabs. I anticipate the pincer and play what I figure would at least deter further aggression. Thank you for giving me a better perspective on it. I still need to do more problems regarding basic connections and reading.
Today's game:
after reading the chapter on good shape in "Lessons" I felt that o14 was important if i indended to save those stone and try to attack the upper right. Seemed to work.
Today's game:
after reading the chapter on good shape in "Lessons" I felt that o14 was important if i indended to save those stone and try to attack the upper right. Seemed to work.
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Marcus
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Re: Go ç¢
I have a few thoughts for you after reviewing your recent game. Please ask any questions, as I would like to be as clear as possible. 
1) Cutting Stones and Counting Liberties, Part 1: Winning the Fight you can Win
There are going to be fights. Lots of them. In close combat, each player's troops are cut off from each other by the opponent's troops, unless one side captures a group. Groups need liberties to survive, and a group with more liberties is better off than a group with less.
I think something that will help you immensely in your games will be to count liberties in local fights. A position from your game:
The marked stones are all behind enemy lines at the moment. The
group is in behind enemy lines, but so is the 
group. If either of these groups die, though, the survivor becomes safe. The liberties of each are marked. Each one has 3 liberties: a, b, c for and x, y, z for . In addition, these two groups are against the edge of the board, with nowhere to run. Either player can win the race to capture by removing the first on his enemy's liberties.
The
stone is also behind enemy lines ... but it only has two liberties. The group that is cutting it off from its allies is the group with 
and 
. The White group is already ahead with 3 liberties. In addition, these two groups are facing towards the center, so it's easier to gain extra liberties. It's more likely that Black will remain behind in liberties than that black will capture the and group.
In the game, black chose to try and fight with the group, running to the center and looking to capture the group. That's a lot harder than capturing the group. This is better, in my opinion:
Black gets ahead in the liberty count on the edge of the board, and White has no way to catch up. Black loses the stone, but the rest of his stones are out of danger with a single move. To be safe, White can play 
to remove any chance of the stone running to the center, so that is completely safe.
2) Cutting Stones and Counting Liberties, Part 2: Staying Ahead in the Liberty Count
Black instead chose to fight the harder battle, and wanted to pull the stone out of the fire. This should have been a mistake, as he's already behind in liberties. However, White makes a mistake.
In the above diagram, Black has been pushing towards the center in an attempt to gain more liberties. After
and 
, Black's group has 4 liberties. White's group has responded to the first push with and now needs to respond to the 2nd push. White has 3 liberties at the moment, and is behind. If White tries to remove a black liberty (as you tried by moving at a for 
), the count becomes a tie at 3 liberties each ... and Black gets the next move. White either has to keep adding liberties or find another way to make his group safe.
Wait a minute ... The group has 3 liberties, right? There's another liberty race happening against the edge, where the liberty count is 3 as well. Looking at the position, the group could also be captured to make the group safe. Since it's White's turn, White can win that liberty race!
Now, even if Black threatens the group, it has more liberties than the group, and will be saved.
3) Can't Cut Me!
Knowing how many liberties are available for each group is important, but let's back up a second ... did we need to get into this fight in the first place? What happened to make such a mess?
When White played
, the cut at a was left for Black. When a cut is left open, there's a chance where stones can be reconnected. In this case, Black gets the opportunity to reconnect his group with the stone at 
. Is that what we want?
Here's an alternative move to consider. The group is a solid barrier between the group and the stone. With some reading (a skill that always needs more practice, 
), White should be able to keep the group separated and may eventually be able to outright capture the group. White does need to be aware of what Black can do with the cut at b and the atari at c (more reading!).
1) Cutting Stones and Counting Liberties, Part 1: Winning the Fight you can Win
There are going to be fights. Lots of them. In close combat, each player's troops are cut off from each other by the opponent's troops, unless one side captures a group. Groups need liberties to survive, and a group with more liberties is better off than a group with less.
I think something that will help you immensely in your games will be to count liberties in local fights. A position from your game:
The marked stones are all behind enemy lines at the moment. The
group is in behind enemy lines, but so is the group. If either of these groups die, though, the survivor becomes safe. The liberties of each are marked. Each one has 3 liberties: a, b, c for and x, y, z for . In addition, these two groups are against the edge of the board, with nowhere to run. Either player can win the race to capture by removing the first on his enemy's liberties.The
stone is also behind enemy lines ... but it only has two liberties. The group that is cutting it off from its allies is the group with and . The White group is already ahead with 3 liberties. In addition, these two groups are facing towards the center, so it's easier to gain extra liberties. It's more likely that Black will remain behind in liberties than that black will capture the and group.In the game, black chose to try and fight with the
group, running to the center and looking to capture the group. That's a lot harder than capturing the group. This is better, in my opinion:Black gets ahead in the liberty count on the edge of the board, and White has no way to catch up. Black loses the
stone, but the rest of his stones are out of danger with a single move. To be safe, White can play to remove any chance of the stone running to the center, so that is completely safe.2) Cutting Stones and Counting Liberties, Part 2: Staying Ahead in the Liberty Count
Black instead chose to fight the harder battle, and wanted to pull the
stone out of the fire. This should have been a mistake, as he's already behind in liberties. However, White makes a mistake.In the above diagram, Black has been pushing towards the center in an attempt to gain more liberties. After
and , Black's group has 4 liberties. White's group has responded to the first push with and now needs to respond to the 2nd push. White has 3 liberties at the moment, and is behind. If White tries to remove a black liberty (as you tried by moving at a for ), the count becomes a tie at 3 liberties each ... and Black gets the next move. White either has to keep adding liberties or find another way to make his group safe.Wait a minute ... The
group has 3 liberties, right? There's another liberty race happening against the edge, where the liberty count is 3 as well. Looking at the position, the group could also be captured to make the group safe. Since it's White's turn, White can win that liberty race!Now, even if Black threatens the
group, it has more liberties than the group, and will be saved.3) Can't Cut Me!
Knowing how many liberties are available for each group is important, but let's back up a second ... did we need to get into this fight in the first place? What happened to make such a mess?
When White played
, the cut at a was left for Black. When a cut is left open, there's a chance where stones can be reconnected. In this case, Black gets the opportunity to reconnect his group with the stone at . Is that what we want?Here's an alternative move to consider. The
group is a solid barrier between the group and the stone. With some reading (a skill that always needs more practice, ), White should be able to keep the group separated and may eventually be able to outright capture the group. White does need to be aware of what Black can do with the cut at b and the atari at c (more reading!).-
Jsiegert
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Re: Go ç¢
Thank you Marcus. These things are easy to grasp when you know your are working on a capturing race, but I find that when I actually play my focus is so divided across the board that they easily escape my view. That having been said I will try to be more aware of liberties of various combative groups. Thank you.
Today's game:
Today's game:
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Jsiegert
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Re: Go ç¢
Thank you again Celebrir. Your explanations are clear. I do try to take them to heart.
However today's game was embarassing to say the least.
I am very aware of several mistakes. A 6k and my opponent stayed after the game to over all of the glaring mistakes. I rushed this game and narrowed my focus too much.
The good news is I now have "Graded Go Problems" Vol. 3
more practice.
However today's game was embarassing to say the least.
I am very aware of several mistakes. A 6k and my opponent stayed after the game to over all of the glaring mistakes. I rushed this game and narrowed my focus too much.
The good news is I now have "Graded Go Problems" Vol. 3
more practice.
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Celebrir
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Re: Go ç¢
Without knowing what the 6k already did, I made some comments:
I feel like their might be some questions this time, but I didn't know how to show my ideas better. If there is anything, just ask
I feel like their might be some questions this time, but I didn't know how to show my ideas better. If there is anything, just ask
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