Life In 19x19

shapenaji wrote:My problem with the Davies book is actually that it's so well categorized [...] Get Strong at Tesuji just gives you tons of shape problems

That is exactly why I have the contrary opinion (and experience!) that Davies' book is so much better than the Get Strong book. Random problem books are good for learning reading. For learning finding tesujis, they are useful AFTER one has learnt the categorised move types. Otherwise the reader needs to do the work the book author failed to do: to categorise. (See my other reply why I agree with you that learning ONLY tesujis is insufficient.)

admins:

can robert use this forum to advertise his book and his teaching?
i've been ignoring his comment but i dont think it is right for him to use this forum for personal gain.

just asking for admin's opinion..

A random user's opinion:

Robert makes it clear whenever he makes a recommendation of his own work that he is the author and makes them in good faith, so I don't really see a problem.

For personal gain, aren't we all getting something through the use of the forum?

Magicwand wrote:admins:

can robert use this forum to advertise his book and his teaching?
i've been ignoring his comment but i dont think it is right for him to use this forum for personal gain.

just asking for admin's opinion..

Then ask them via PM and not in a thread...

RobertJasiek wrote:

shapenaji wrote:My problem with the Davies book is actually that it's so well categorized [...] Get Strong at Tesuji just gives you tons of shape problems

That is exactly why I have the contrary opinion (and experience!) that Davies' book is so much better than the Get Strong book. Random problem books are good for learning reading.

Of course the Davies book is so much better, if you want to learn some tesuji. But there aren't that many problems in this book. And the only other english tesuji book I know so far are "Get strong at tesuji" and "501 tesuji problems". The second one is, at least for my 6kyu brain, way to hard, but the first is a big help to train several tesujis in many problems.
So to (begin to) learn tesuji, I would always recommand first to read Davies' "Tesuji" and afterwards "Get strong at tesuji".

My problem with all tesuji books is that they don't outline which pattern to look out for, so that you can distinguish at a glance which shape works and which doesn't. Grasping this difference will possibly give you a boost in understanding tesuji and your reading capabilities. The approach in the problem books as well as in Davies' book does not work well for me (YMMV of course), because I forget the shapes too quickly due to lack of understanding, and that makes learning tesuji inefficient. That is my experience after having solved thousands of tesuji problems without much success. If my motivation to study the game comes back, I'd like to pick the tesuji into small pieces - every single connect-and-die, shortage-of-liberties, double threat, snapback, embedded capturing race, cutting point, etc. etc. - to get a surround understanding of each tesuji, when it works and when not. That would be my understanding of "studying" tesuji.

Akura wrote:And the only other english tesuji book

Pure tesuji / tsumego problem books do not need text; they can be in any language. All the reader needs to understand is a variation's outcome and this is easy enough without comments. Positional judgement or middle game problems are harder without text.

Magicwand wrote:can robert use this forum to advertise his book and his teaching?

The forum rules answer your question but... you are interested in a more specific discussion of what is advertisement and what is allowed. Maybe better in a different thread, but since you asked here, for the time being I reply here.

Why do you ask about me? You can also ask whether other people's signatures about their products or teaching are possible or prohibit them from writing in this forum? (Do you mean the "Amateurs" forum?)

What surprises me the most is that you choose this thread (Why not the joseki thread) for discussing your question, a thread in which I only stated "Therefore I teach all move types instead of only tesuji types.". This is my "advertisement" for what I think everybody should do: to teach all move types instead of only tesuji types. All moves are important - the tesujis are not the only important moves.

Philip Traum wrote:If Robert and Magicwand please take their personal issues to another thread I would like to post some relevant quotes:

Robert certainly hasn't made it personal this time.

RobertJasiek wrote:

Akura wrote:And the only other english tesuji book

Pure tesuji / tsumego problem books do not need text; they can be in any language. All the reader needs to understand is a variation's outcome and this is easy enough without comments. Positional judgement or middle game problems are harder without text.

You're absolutely right.
Actually I wanted to say something like "easily accessable books for westerners" or anything similar, but it turned out to become "english books"...

The main problem in learning tesuji (and life and deat, too) is that you have to practice a lot. Much more than one or two games on KGS a week would provide. So it's practically inevitable to read books on the topic. But just learning from huge problem collections (like "501 tesuji problems") is very hard, especially when you want to understand the underlying structure (compare Robert's approach to joseki).
So beginning with book like "Tesuji" from Davies is essential to understand what you're actually practicing. But to polish your skills, you have to do thousands of thousands of problems no matter how good you understand the tesuji itself.

And practising during games is really hard. Some weeks ago a german 5dan told me to improve my reading, as this my current main weakness. So I started to do lots of tsumego, of course, but I also try to read as much as possible during games. This is very tiring, but in the end you have to apply the tesuji you learned from books and, even more important, have to know when they can't be applied.

So for conclusion, the best way to learn tesuji, I think, is to switch from theoretical books to problem collections to intense in-game reading.

Akura wrote:to polish your skills, you have to do thousands of thousands of problems

This is the dan player's "standard".

RobertJasiek wrote:This is the dan player's "standard".

If it's standard, then it's good, right?

Akura wrote:

RobertJasiek wrote:This is the dan player's "standard".

If it's standard, then it's good, right?

You don't have to be good at any particular skill to become a dan player, but you have to be good at some skill. And it does not have to be a go skill. I know someone who is a dan player because he refuses to lose.

Akura wrote:then it's good, right?

Apply your earlier conclusion "switch from theoretical books to problem collections to intense in-game reading." and when you are dan you don't count in hundreds any longer but in thousands. Up to about 3d, 1000 might be enough though if you have other strengths.