Life In 19x19

How does an ordinary person cheating on KGS harm anyone?

If I log on L19, and start violating the terms of service left and right, calling people the nastiest and most obscene names I can think of, how does it harm them? Well, mostly by bothering them in virtue of breaking one of the norms that the community's cooperation centers around (we come here because we expect a reasonably friendly place where we can talk with each other, without horrible trolls). Now, why do we go to KGS? To play people or bots, on the understanding that when we think we're playing people, they're not going to just start getting their 5 dan neighbor or 5 dan bot to play for them.

There are some theoretical questions that doesn't answer, but practically speaking, what more explanation do you need?

I agree with most others here. I generally play against a computer when it is too inconvenient to start a game with a human (for example, if I might have to leave). I prefer to play humans for a host of reasons. So if there was a simple way to guarantee I'd be playing a real human online, sure why not? But it doesn't really bother me much. At least, not enough to go through any inconvenience involved in verifying my opponent is human. For example, we could require people to use webcams/screencasts/etc. (which, of course, wouldn't "guarantee" anything, but would make using bots harder), but I wouldn't even bother playing at that point. Tournaments with prizes are different.

Now, if it turned out I was playing the same 1-3 computer programs all day because all of my opponents used bots, I would just not play online nearly as much.

You all are making too much of this. After all, Pippin, the OP, is just a bot. Really. We see him here; we see him on KGS. But has anybody met him in RL? Of course not - he's a bot.

Play turn based go and use whatever tools or books you have on hand to counter the bot

What will be really annoying is that all the players who currently whine about how anyone who beats them is a sandbagger, will instead whine about how anyone who beats them is using a bot.

There is really no need to stick around for the whining unless you are planning to review your game with the loser. In which case, you can show your knowledge of the game and how you logically won without using a bot.

The list of things we're too good to be annoyed by just keeps getting longer

Here is the problem: If more people use bots for help the whole rank system will shift downward for the honest player. If you are 3k you may end up at 5k, because a lot of your "3k's" are playing with bots help and you will drop. Since I play Go mainly to get better with my rank that's a concern. I could live with this bots thing but I hope there is a creative idea against it, because if not I'd rather like that it's allowed than forbidden. What I didn't want is a situation like with doping in cycling or track & field: it's prohibited but everyone does it.

Pippen wrote:Since I play Go mainly to get better with my rank that's a concern.

Oh, don't say that. Thinking about your rank is a negative emotion! We should be ok with bots messing up the rank system.

Joaz Banbeck wrote:

schultz wrote:... The use of a bot is just another way of cheating. Sandbagging, reverse sandbagging - in the end, you are creating an unfavorable situation for someone else.

If the bot+human plays consistently, how does it harm anyone?

Perhaps I only use the bot for online tournaments.

Pippen wrote:In the nearer future people might use machines ..

If you want your group to live, come with me!