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164. Twitchy Go v Wanderling

https://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=5941

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Re:

Posted: Sun May 13, 2012 5:12 am
by Twitchy Go
EdLee wrote:Twitchy Go,
Taking the empty corner and approaching a 3-4 are about the same. :) No problem. <-- PRO OPINION
Twitchy Go wrote:I still stand by my previous statement that I think the approach is slightly better for W.
It's certainly your privilege to disagree with pro opinion. :):

Indeed it is. Lets see if play can prove me wrong here :)

Re: 164. Twitchy Go v Wanderling

Posted: Sun May 13, 2012 1:43 pm
by Wanderling
E16

Thought about Sanrensei but approached here instead to deny him the star point to combine top. He can pincer and achieve similar effect which would make my move an early invasion, I might get a weak group between his two territories on the top. On my second move I wanted to deny him the keima approach of my left 4-4 but didn't know what else there was. Perhaps I should keima approach top left, not sure how it's different from the one-space.

Re: 164. Twitchy Go v Wanderling

Posted: Sun May 13, 2012 2:57 pm
by Twitchy Go
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Please enjoy yourself!
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , 6 . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Please enjoy yourself!
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 7 . . . . c . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , 6 . . . . a . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . b . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Urgent before big. 1pt high approach is not played with the intent of living on the side, so that means he probably wants some kind of outside position. Lets see if I can give it to him and end in sente to take the shared extension point. :twisted: (doubtable)
Acceptable results.
A wall facing his starpoint he takes b I take a(don't know how it would get there from here but if he wants that good for him.)
A wall facing my corner enclosure, while i live in the corner and down the part of the left side. If he takes a that lets me give me sente to approach a 4-4. If he does something else(I doubt it) I'll take c.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Please enjoy yourself!
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 5 3 4 . . . c . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , 2 6 . . . 8 . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I think this is joseki. If he follows this through 6 I will play at c instead of 7. I can live with being small in the corner, that extension is big.
Therefore he will probably skip 6 playing straight at 8. I will take 7 and save the cutting aji for later. If he goes back to play 6, hey that's sente for me :)
I have some other ideas for W response, but I think he'll take this route. Stopping me from playing c would be nice for him.

Re: 164. Twitchy Go v Wanderling

Posted: Sun May 13, 2012 3:14 pm
by Wanderling
F17

Re: 164. Twitchy Go v Wanderling

Posted: Sun May 13, 2012 3:17 pm
by Twitchy Go
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Please enjoy yourself!
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 9 X 8 . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

as planned

Re: 164. Twitchy Go v Wanderling

Posted: Sun May 13, 2012 4:52 pm
by Wanderling
O3

I wanted to try something other than tiger's mouth. I have seen good players play something other than tiger's mouth here, but I don't know why.

Re: 164. Twitchy Go v Wanderling

Posted: Sun May 13, 2012 5:09 pm
by Twitchy Go
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm9 Move 10-20
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . 3 . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I'm not really sure to make of his move :scratch:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Move 10-20
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X W . . . 1 . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , W . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . a . . . . . . X . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The marked stones seem weak now, and while he has taken a decent point, he needs another move to enclose that corner. This is a really good result for me. If I can play a later I will have a very solid development on the top. The marked stones are weak so lets see if I can make some profit attacking. However if he doesn't return to the local area I'll probably tenuki as well. Don't want to fall behind in development after all

Re: 164. Twitchy Go v Wanderling

Posted: Sun May 13, 2012 5:25 pm
by Wanderling
E18

The pincer puts the spotlight on my stones in the top. This move is experimental, my goal is to make some space for potential eyes with these stones

Re: 164. Twitchy Go v Wanderling

Posted: Sun May 13, 2012 6:25 pm
by Twitchy Go
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Move 10-20
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If I'm reading correctly his move doesn't put my corner in danger, so I can tenuki if I wish. However, I've watched dsaun review high dan games, and he always makes a big deal over how they follow basic principles to decide on moves. dsaun broke it into this checklist.
1)Is there a weak group. If so who's? Do we both have one
2) Okay attack their weak group/defend my weak group. Can I find a move to do both?
3)No weak groups? Take a big point.
Int his case his stones are still weak. And I'm strong in the area. So attacking might be good. D18 prepares for this. It makes my corner even more solid and if he guards against the potential atari, then his stones still aren't in a great spot and are heavier as a result. Plus there is still the aji of a cut at F16. If I were W, after B responds at D18 I'd jump lightly for the center.
Hopefully he'll do so in such a way to induce either C14 or K15. I'm not going to worry about approaching the 4-4 just yet, 3-3 is still possible after all.

Re: 164. Twitchy Go v Wanderling

Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 1:42 am
by Wanderling
E15

Re: 164. Twitchy Go v Wanderling

Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 4:56 am
by Twitchy Go
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm13 Move 10-20
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Thank you!
As I figure I have 25 points of near indisputable territory. He currently has none. I base this claim off the fact that both 3-3 are still open. Not to mention he has a group to worry about, I don't.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Move 10-20
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | ? ? ? . . . . . . . . . . . . . ? ? ? |
$$ | ? ? ? X O . . . . . . . . . . . ? ? ? |
$$ | ? ? ? X X O . . . B . . . . . X ? ? ? |
$$ | ? ? X , O . . . . , . . . . . , ? ? ? |
$$ | ? ? . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The one thing I'm worried about is that he might try to lean on my side to attack my marked extension. If you have to run bring a friend as the proverb goes. Since he has jumped out its fight time. Lets chase this group for all its worth :twisted:

Re: 164. Twitchy Go v Wanderling

Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 4:01 pm
by Wanderling
Sorry, Twitchy- I am slow thinker

J15

Stretch out a bit and give my top group potential at shape. Wants to take away the obvious and good K15 for black (only partially successful). I have a dream of sealing black's top left group.

Re: 164. Twitchy Go v Wanderling

Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 6:13 pm
by Twitchy Go
Take your time. Thought out moves tend to be more interesting :tmbup:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm15 Enjoy the game
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . 2 . 3 . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This gives him sente, but I'd really rather not be pressed down and I the spot between the K and R columns is developing nicely. I don't think I can give him sente again, and his shape is pretty flexible and I got a decent reward out of his weak group. I'll be approaching his position next move more likely then not.

Re: 164. Twitchy Go v Wanderling

Posted: Fri May 18, 2012 11:47 am
by Wanderling
F4
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Move 10-20
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . O . X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . W . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Although I enjoy playing out variations by myself, I do not want to make Twitchy wait forever. :lol: I'm sure he's eager to play. At first I was going to play another move on my top group, namely F13. I think that would make my group 1 move from being unkillable plus give me the cap at C12. Ultimately I decided to slack off a bit on the top group and see what Twitchy thinks. I'd like to know what experienced players like EdLee and Magicwand think of my play thus far.


Can someone link me to instructions on making the picture of a board w/ numbered moves?

Posted: Fri May 18, 2012 7:49 pm
by EdLee
Wanderling wrote:Can someone link me to instructions on making the picture of a board w/ numbered moves?
www.lifein19x19.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=226

The move numbers have been wrong since :b11:.

Wanderling,
What you want to work on the most, like everyone else here, is your basics. :)
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