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Re: How Deep does The Rabbit Hole Go?
Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 3:04 am
by Actorios
quantumf wrote:South Africa.
Face to face teaching - occasionally, but strong players don't really exist in South Africa (Roseduke aside), so this would rely on rare visits from strong players.
Online teaching - yes. Had a Chinese 5d teaching me weekly for a few months, helped me move from 2k to 1k, and I'm sure I would have progressed further, if she'd been able to keep teaching me. Reading about direction of play is so abstract, and so hard to apply to your personal understanding and faults, that I find it almost useless. A good teacher can correct your conceptual faults far more effectively than you can on your own.
But I can't stress tsumego enough. Any teacher you get will tell you the same. "Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory" is a quote you may have heard. So a teacher can improve your thinking about the game, but you have to have the reading to carry it out. I have found this the hardest thing to get better at.
Thanks a lot for your feedback. It makes perfect sense.
Re: How Deep does The Rabbit Hole Go?
Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 3:41 am
by SoDesuNe
I read somewhere that everyone can become 4-dan (EGF) with the right effort (time varies of course). Reaching 5-dan and 6-dan is more linked to talent (and starting young).
When I started Go, my primary goal was reaching Shodan within 4 years. Now (after one year) I aim at 4-dan by 2013, because I know I can be so much better if I'm really going to study Go (and more important control myself =D).
Re: How Deep does The Rabbit Hole Go?
Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 3:53 am
by Magicwand
with proper training anybody can reach upto KGS 5D level.
that should be your goal.
Re: How Deep does The Rabbit Hole Go?
Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 4:05 am
by Phelan
I want to get to at least 1 dan. I expect that with very serious study, I could make 3 dan, but I doubt that I could advance beyond that.
Re: How Deep does The Rabbit Hole Go?
Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 4:24 am
by nami
ranks doesn't really matter.
when you play a game, take your time and try to give all you've got and try to win! desperately!.
Don't be afraid of losing this way. It will hurt if you give your all but it's a sweet pain :p
The good thing is: if you gave all and you still lost, means, you did something wrong. Try to find out, what it is. Ask stronger persons for reviews and try to learn everything you hear from them. But don't take it as 100% - just as an idea what you could try next time.
I think if you try like this, you can hit shodan without problems, even much higher, but you finally won't care about that anymore
Re: How Deep does The Rabbit Hole Go?
Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 6:53 am
by Fedya
I've been playing nine years (started in my late 20s), and am still stuck at the KGS 6-7k level....
Re: How Deep does The Rabbit Hole Go?
Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 7:01 am
by Magicwand
Fedya wrote:I've been playing nine years (started in my late 20s), and am still stuck at the KGS 6-7k level....
what is your studying methods? i reached 1D level in 1 year.
i read every monthly magagazine from korea.
reviewed all games played by professionals during that month.
tons of life and death problems.
memorized all basic josekies and trick plays.
played at least 10 games/day with stronger players (5d or higher).
i think playing against someone stronger than 5D is the most important factor that made me strong.
they do not forgive your complacency so they will keep you on your toes.
Re: How Deep does The Rabbit Hole Go?
Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 7:12 am
by CarlJung
Fedya wrote:I've been playing nine years (started in my late 20s), and am still stuck at the KGS 6-7k level....
You have implied before that you don't do tsumego. I suspect very few can reach 1d without it. Especially if you play mostly alone online and don't have hords of 5d+ friends that seem to flock around magicwand
Re: How Deep does The Rabbit Hole Go?
Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 7:20 am
by Magicwand
CarlJung wrote:.... Especially if you play mostly alone online and don't have hords of 5d+ friends that seem to flock around magicwand
it was a club environment and they were not my friends. they were mean hungry wolves. all they were intrested in was playing for money and steal my money. i had to pay my tolls to get stronger and it was worth it because i became one of those wolves after few years.
Re: How Deep does The Rabbit Hole Go?
Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 8:58 am
by Bill Spight
Actorios wrote:I'm asking a question I believe everybody did ask himself: "which rank can I expect to reach?"
When I started go, I knew it was a tough game but I thought anyone could reach shodan if they really want to.
I don't believe this anymore.
I'm in my mid-thirties, started go 1.5 year ago and reached 6k KGS, a very humble level. I've got no doubt I can make some more progress (and will try to) but even within 4-5 years time, I'm clearly not confident to be able to reach shodan level.
Did someone here started at about my age and managed to reach 1d KGS? Do you know of some people who did?
What are your beliefs / experience regarding age and maximum level reached?
I read a letter in a Japanese go magazine from a man who was a 1 kyu when he retired at age 50. Five years later he was a 5 dan, having advanced one dan per year. (And this was at a time when amateur Japanese 6 dans overlapped pro shodans in strength.) He probably started playing at a younger age than you, but that just shows what is possible.
I expect that you can reach amateur shodan in 4-5 years, but only if, like the letter writer, you take lessons. (And play stronger players on a regular basis. If you want to become a dan player, play against dan players.)
Good luck!
Re: How Deep does The Rabbit Hole Go?
Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 9:29 am
by CarlJung
Magicwand wrote:it was a club environment and they were not my friends. they were mean hungry wolves. all they were intrested in was playing for money and steal my money. i had to pay my tolls to get stronger and it was worth it because i became one of those wolves after few years.
Sounds both fun and expensive.
Re: How Deep does The Rabbit Hole Go?
Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 9:32 am
by tj86430
CarlJung wrote:Magicwand wrote:it was a club environment and they were not my friends. they were mean hungry wolves. all they were intrested in was playing for money and steal my money. i had to pay my tolls to get stronger and it was worth it because i became one of those wolves after few years.
Sounds both fun and expensive.
I always thought that games of pure skill are very ill suited for that, since it will so soon become so obvious to the weaker player, that he has no chance of winning (unless he is very stupid)
Re: How Deep does The Rabbit Hole Go?
Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 9:36 am
by POGO
For me ive been playing around 7 month's. reached kgs 11k right now (but beating 10-9k's, and holding well aganst 8k's with no handi)
For me it is a state of mind. if i lose 4 or more times in a row i stop playing on kgs. go back review those games compaired to my winning ones. reread fundamental books and new books, take a couple teaching games from my teacher. play fallout 3 for a few days.
then i come back and usually gain 1-2 stones. this is how i passed the 12k block.
For me my ultimate goal is shodan in two years of playing.
But having that as a consent goal is bad, as the pressure of time constraints will slow you down.
So a better way (that i found) is say i want to gain 2 stones as fast as i can. how can i do this?
so i worked out a system. every day before bed i sit down and do 5-10 l&d/tsumego problems 3-6 stones higher then me.
i keep doing the same ones until they are memorized.
Re: How Deep does The Rabbit Hole Go?
Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 10:09 am
by hoohoo
I dont think its the age that stop you from reaching a certain rank, but the fact that you got less time for your hobbies as you get older
Re: How Deep does The Rabbit Hole Go?
Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 10:15 am
by daal
Actorios wrote:I'm asking a question I believe everybody did ask himself: "which rank can I expect to reach?"
What I find interesting about the question is that we can't know the answer. I'm in a similar boat, though I was about 10 years older than you when I started and it took me a year longer to reach 6k, which by the way was the level of my first KGS mentor, and man was he strong!
When I started playing, I wasn't sure that I could even reach SDK but now, I'm starting to wonder if it might indeed be possible to reach Shodan. I'm not confident either, but like you I was heartened to read some of the replies.
Sure, starting late is probably not helpful, but it is only one of many factors. While I too would like someday to be able to answer "yes" to the question "are you a dan player," the only way that will happen is if I continue to enjoy spending my time on the game, and as long as I'm doing that it really can't be all that important what rank I've currently reached. Right?
