Life In 19x19

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[go]$$c 3x3
$$ - - - - -
$$ | . . . |
$$ | W . B |
$$ | . . . |
$$ - - - - -[/go]

On the first two moves, Black and White place their Kings.

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[go]$$c 3x3
$$ - - - - -
$$ | . 4 . |
$$ | W B 3 |
$$ | . . . |
$$ - - - - -[/go]

On move 3 the Black King moves to tengen. plays on the top side.

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[go]$$c 3x3
$$ - - - - -
$$ | . O . |
$$ | W 5 X |
$$ | . B . |
$$ - - - - -[/go]

The Black King moves to the side.

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[go]$$c 3x3
$$ - - - - -
$$ | . O . |
$$ | W X X |
$$ | . B 6 |
$$ - - - - -[/go]

wins!

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[go]$$c 3x3
$$ - - - - -
$$ | . O . |
$$ | W X X |
$$ | B 7 O |
$$ - - - - -[/go]

The Black King must move.

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[go]$$c 3x3
$$ - - - - -
$$ | O O W |
$$ | 8 X X |
$$ | B X . |
$$ - - - - -[/go]

But now mates.

Oh?

How about this?

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[go]$$c 3x3
$$ - - - - -
$$ | . O . |
$$ | W X X |
$$ | . B O |
$$ - - - - -[/go]

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[go]$$c 3x3
$$ - - - - -
$$ | B O . |
$$ | W X X |
$$ | . X . |
$$ - - - - -[/go]

Now white has no legal play.

EDIT: Woops, white has a play, here we go

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[go]$$c 3x3
$$ - - - - -
$$ | B O 8 |
$$ | W X X |
$$ | . X . |
$$ - - - - -[/go]

now, if black moves to the bottom left corner, he gets checkmated on the following move.

Perhaps there should be an opposition rule, kings can checkmate other kings. (So it can take the liberties of the other king)

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[go]$$c 3x3
$$ - - - - -
$$ | B O . |
$$ | W X X |
$$ | . X . |
$$ - - - - -[/go]

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[go]$$c 3x3
$$ - - - - -
$$ | B O W |
$$ | O X X |
$$ | . X . |
$$ - - - - -[/go]

Depending on the rules, Black is captured before white.

Dusk Eagle wrote:

$$c 3x3
$$ - - - - -
$$ | B O . |
$$ | W X X |
$$ | . X . |
$$ - - - - -

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[go]$$c 3x3
$$ - - - - -
$$ | B O . |
$$ | W X X |
$$ | . X . |
$$ - - - - -[/go]

$$c 3x3
$$ - - - - -
$$ | B O W |
$$ | O X X |
$$ | . X . |
$$ - - - - -

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[go]$$c 3x3
$$ - - - - -
$$ | B O W |
$$ | O X X |
$$ | . X . |
$$ - - - - -[/go]

Depending on the rules, Black is captured before white.

I was assuming white can't move into check perhaps that was a big assumption.

shapenaji wrote:Perhaps there should be an opposition rule, kings can checkmate other kings. (So it can take the liberties of the other king)

I am leaning that way myself.

Kings take away each other's liberty, but not the liberties of other stones.

Or maybe:

Kings take away the liberties of their own stones, as well as each other's liberties, but not the liberties of the opponent's regular stones.

Crazy game!

It always amazes me that anyone would want to try to come up with a variant for go. It is almost as if that suggests that go is not interesting enough as it is. I just don't get the desire to come up with variants. Sorry. I had to say it because every time someone mentions it I think this.

Terri

goddess wrote:It always amazes me that anyone would want to try to come up with a variant for go. It is almost as if that suggests that go is not interesting enough as it is. I just don't get the desire to come up with variants. Sorry. I had to say it because every time someone mentions it I think this.

Terri

Well, go is an interesting game with many interesting facets, sometimes it's nice to illuminate those facets in a different lighting.

For example, boards which are not square, or which have odd dynamics to them (wrapping around infinitely) demonstrate the power of edges, and the difficulty making territory without them.

Furthermore, if one likes games, one has to beware of becoming too reliant on rote memorization, and ignoring the development of a strategic sense. Variants throw out a lot of ingrained joseki and force you to consider fundamentals.

Also, developing a game with emergent gameplay IS a game in itself.

It always amazes me that go players would take go forsaking all others... There are many beautiful games out there, and more that we haven't discovered

Javaness2 wrote:I think you should modify the idea a little

1. You can win by points or capture of the opponent's magical-king-like-token
2. Allow the king to only move in a certain restricted way (like a knight's move)
3. Play on a small board
4. (Maybe) Put the magical-king-like-tokens in the centre of the board at the start.

I think Javaness raises several important points.

1) The king stone could be worth a small bunch of points, but not necessarily a game-ender - sort of like the black queen in hearts.

2) Are the king stones in the board at the beginning of the game? Or do you play it from your bowl sometimes during the game? This has not been explicitly stated.

3) How exactly does the king stone move? Like a king in chess? Anywhere? Again, not explicitly stated.
Also, does moving the king stone constitute a move, or can I move it and play from my bowl?

------

Once these issues are settled, if the result looks interesting, I'd be up for a king-stone malkovich game. Anyone else?

What is unclear to me is whether it is the king's liberties, or its group's liberties, that matter. Alberich's initial post (and the responses to it) suggests the latter, whereas Bill seems to be excited by the former.

Anyway, once you simply make Alberich's king into bonus points, you're playing Batoo. And Batoo doesn't solve the horrible problem that it's impossible to know the score at the end of a game of go!

The more I think about this, the more I find it intriguing. We experienced players were judging it by our standards: for us, it does not pose an improvement - or even an interesting variation - for experienced players.

But what does it mean for the beginner? That is the stadnpoint from which we should judge it. @Alberich: What were you trying to accomplish when you invented this? What motivated you? ( This is a serious question. I promise no negative comments about your answer. )