Life In 19x19

I do not feel sympathy for her. Sympathy is reserved for people that I respect. To put it simply: I do not respect people who commit suicide.

I hate this subject and I hate the last post.

cyclops wrote:I hate this subject and I hate the last post.

Wessik's point gave me an icky feeling too, but in qualified defense: when someone commits suicide, there is a tendency, quite rightly, for everyone to attempt, too late, to give the victim the praise, admiration, and loving support that they had conspicuously failed to provide him or her in life. This, in turn, forms part of the common attitude among depressed people that all of their problems would be solved if they were gone.

I believe Lucian reports that in the town of Abdera, in Greece, there was a spate of copycat suicides by young women. People were in shock; the superstitious thought it was a curse, or evil demons, or a sign of divine wrath. The magistrate, on the other hand, thought it could be stopped. When the next suicide occurred, he hanged the corpse naked off the city walls like that of a common criminal. And that was the end of their suicide problem.

Wessik wrote:To put it simply: I do not respect people who commit suicide.

So you don't respect people with mental illnesses then?


jts, that's not a good defence of his point at all, not that I disagree with what you said, though I question your last point about a common attitude amongst depressed people. I'm not sure how common that exact thought and whether the causality you draw is correct.

Wessik wrote:I do not feel sympathy for her. Sympathy is reserved for people that I respect. To put it simply: I do not respect people who commit suicide.

I really think you mistake sympathy for admiration. If she had fought her way through this dark tunnel and come out the other side, I would respect and admire her.

But how can she not have my sympathy?

Yes, suicide is wrong - often a very selfish, hurtful and cowardly tenuki. But if we reserve our sympathy only for the strong, we will find ourselves ill prepared for when adversity strikes in our own lives. Our capacity to appreciate and empathize with the struggles of others, gives us a deeper strength for dealing with our own issues than admiration and hero worship ever will.

I cannot admire someone I do not respect, but I can sympathize with those who are less than perfect. It would be strange world and a stranger dictionairy were we to only have sympathy for the perfect.

Wessik wrote:I do not feel sympathy for her. Sympathy is reserved for people that I respect. To put it simply: I do not respect people who commit suicide.

1) you shouldn't talk anything bad about dead people even if they are bad. She was anything but bad.
2) i feel sympathy toward you for being so ignorant and lacking empathy.
3) I dont know you but i can guess that you are a teenager for posting something stupid as above. hope you growup soon.

It seems that our opinions about suicide may have a strong cultural bias.

Magicwand wrote: 1) you shouldn't talk anything bad about dead people even if they are bad.

You shouldn't say anything bad about Hitler, Stalin, or Mao?

Fedya wrote:

Magicwand wrote: 1) you shouldn't talk anything bad about dead people even if they are bad.

You shouldn't say anything bad about Hitler, Stalin, or Mao?

answer for your question: yes they are included.
reason: it is Asian culture thing.

edit:
Actually i respect Mao.

Wessik wrote:I do not feel sympathy for her. Sympathy is reserved for people that I respect. To put it simply: I do not respect people who commit suicide.

I'm sorry, but this is such a terrible thing to say. What makes it worse is that you're not the only one who feels this way; there are so many comments on that YouTube video by people who feel the same way as you, and it's really getting me mad. Have you even considered the circumstances Amanda was in before she decided to commit suicide? How would you feel if you had absolutely no one to turn to, and you believed that the whole world was against you? A lot of people think that suicide is a "selfish" thing to do, but in Amanda's case, maybe she thought she was helping the world? Maybe she thought that, since no one liked her or had any sympathy for her (bolded for you Wessik), committing suicide would sort of help the world? Like by committing suicide the world would somehow be "relieved" of her? Do you have any idea how advanced this kind of depression is? I'm sorry if I'm sounding rude or anything but your comment is seriously annoying. I just think that saying that you "don't respect people who commit suicide" is really awful.

Lamb wrote:Have you even considered the circumstances Amanda was in before she decided to commit suicide? How would you feel if you had absolutely no one to turn to, and you believed that the whole world was against you? A lot of people think that suicide is a "selfish" thing to do, but in Amanda's case, maybe she thought she was helping the world? [...] I just think that saying that you "don't respect people who commit suicide" is really awful.

This is absolutely true. You make a good point.

There was a time I was seriously considering suicide. I didn't see a link to Amanda's case until just now. While it was not the main reason, some bullying was definitely involved.

Suicide is an irrational thing; so are emotions. Someone seriously considering suicide is someone who seriously believes it's the right thing to do in the circumstances. And it's not that they don't think they're loved or supported. They just don't feel it, or don't consider it, or they push on anyway. I felt terrible at the idea that I would do this to my dad and my family, but it just seemed like the only way.

I used to believe it was selfish act of weakness. But I can say with confidence that I am not weak-minded. And I am not selfish. Yet when I put myself in this position I was amazed to find that these were my own thoughts, my own decisions.

Like most suicide cases, my friends had no idea. This was brought on by a bit event in my personal life, and my dad had his suspicions and sent his love and support. It didn't really reach me though. That's the trouble. I was sad and isolated and I was living life in a world of pain - all of my own design. Although for me it was "I'm better off without all this" rather than the opposite, it's not hard for me to imagine the "Everyone is better off without me" mentality.

As a note, I don't believe in any 'life after death' scenario. So this is coming from someone who is absolutely terrified beyond comprehension of death.

In the end I had to drastically change the way I felt about someone, a full 180 degrees, before I could put my thoughts back together in a cohesive way, and get out of my suicidal state. It was a simple 'technique', really, something NLP could've helped with had I known (and not been in the middle of an irrational, self-destructive rampage).

Returning to Amanda's case and Lamb's comments, it was clear from the follow-up media craze that she had both a loving family and a great circle of friends. These things don't help if you don't let them. And in her own way, though it might be a sick thing to say, she did make the world a little better.

Suicide is a selfish act. It's irrational. It's the worst of solutions. But it's not something you can easily control or fight once you're in that gear. And the triggers are usually very real and hurtful situations, usually some form of abuse. Ever since my trial I've had new-found respect for people who are suicidal, because they're constantly fighting it. If they weren't, they'd have killed themselves. And I respect those who have taken the final step, not because it was a good idea, but because I know they fought until the bitter end.

I'm very detached from this experience now (all part of the process outlined above), but one thing that I had to fight down tears about earlier in composing this post, and the part that still terrifies me, is how I had almost hurt, on the deepest level, everyone who loves me, especially my dad. I used to brag about how I'd never even contemplate suicide, not knowing what it was like at all. Now I know for sure that I will never go there again.

Don't bash suicidal people; help them instead.

The "no respect" line is sure a mean as hell thing to say, but I don't know what the point of responding to it is. You're not going to argue Wessik into having empathy.

cata wrote:You're not going to argue Wessik into having empathy.

You could argue we're (in the generic sense of "we" as society, not we in this individual thread) trying to bully the non-empathetic into having the right thoughts.

You could, but why would you?

hyperpape wrote:You could, but why would you?

Because the point of the Amanda Todd story is that bullying is bad?