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Re: Taking notes during play
Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 7:21 pm
by tundra
Re: this AGA rule, that you may take notes during play, provided you show them to your opponent. I have been searching for it, in both the
AGA Rules of Go, and the
AGA Tournament Regulations.
As far as I can tell, there is no such rule. (If it did exist, it looks like it would have appeared in the tournament regulations, section VI.A.5.) If I am overlooking it, could someone point out where it appears?
Re: Taking notes during play
Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:59 pm
by Zombie
In Magic, there are effects that reveal the opposing player's hand. Like the size of a group in Go, this is essentially public information that you just have to memorize, and it is important to. They found out it's faster to just let people take notes during play. Otherwise people would spend a long time memorizing the contents of the opponent's hand. With notes, it's a non-issue. I don't see why private notes would have to be forbidden as long as they are made during the game and can be checked by a judge if necessary.
Re: Taking notes during play
Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:49 pm
by HermanHiddema
SmoothOper wrote:Do I have to show them while playing or just afterward?
Seems like it would be tempting to write something like "Black loses by y=45, black sucks by x=30, black's hair = frizzy, white is awesome = 25..." just to obfuscate the text.
Which then runs the risk of you getting your game forfeited by a referee...

Re: Taking notes during play
Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:35 am
by Zombie
The relevant parts of note-taking rules from Magic Tournament Rules. Seem pretty ok for Go in my opinion if note-taking is to be allowed. What do you think?
(A single tournament match in Magic is typically a Best of Three set)
Re: Taking notes during play
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 4:26 am
by Phelan
Zombie wrote:Players do not have to explain or reveal notes to other players.
This is the part I disagree with. While this might make sense in Magic, where there is hidden information (composition of deck, current hand, etc.), Go is a perfect information game. The only hidden information is what your opponent is thinking.
Adding extra hidden information would introduce another layer to the game: how good are the notes you take, how much processing/memory power can you save by writing things down?
So, I think using public visible and understandable notes is the only way to keep the game the same. If you want to save your memory when counting, your opponent should get access to that information.
Re: Taking notes during play
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 2:47 pm
by Zombie
How would it change? If I write my thoughts on the size of a group (which we both may well disagree on) or whether some tricky situation might in fact be dead I am just cluing my opponent on my thinking, which entirely defeats the purpose of any and all note-taking. I don't see how using a paper extension of your own memory necessarily changes the nature of the game. It's still your own private thoughts, just with a little reminder.
Re: Taking notes during play
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 3:07 pm
by oren
I think taking notes is very different from the nature of the game. When two people play go the only equipment are the board and stones. Over time as people wanted to improve, they would record games to ask others where they could get better. The intent is not to use paper and pencil for anything but game recording.
Re: Taking notes during play
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 4:07 pm
by jts
Zombie wrote:How would it change? If I write my thoughts on the size of a group (which we both may well disagree on) or whether some tricky situation might in fact be dead I am just cluing my opponent on my thinking, which entirely defeats the purpose of any and all note-taking. I don't see how using a paper extension of your own memory necessarily changes the nature of the game. It's still your own private thoughts, just with a little reminder.
Do you think people should be allowed to play out the game on a second board, as well?
Re: Taking notes during play
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:42 pm
by Mef
Zombie wrote:The relevant parts of note-taking rules from Magic Tournament Rules. Seem pretty ok for Go in my opinion if note-taking is to be allowed. What do you think?
I would be wary of drawing parallels here. Go is a perfect information game. Magic, by design, is not.
Re: Taking notes during play
Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:31 pm
by SmoothOper
jts wrote:Zombie wrote:How would it change? If I write my thoughts on the size of a group (which we both may well disagree on) or whether some tricky situation might in fact be dead I am just cluing my opponent on my thinking, which entirely defeats the purpose of any and all note-taking. I don't see how using a paper extension of your own memory necessarily changes the nature of the game. It's still your own private thoughts, just with a little reminder.
Do you think people should be allowed to play out the game on a second board, as well?
Yes, but only if the board is a tattoo and the stones are pocket lint.
Re: Taking notes during play
Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 4:34 pm
by cyclops
Next time I will have some colored rings on my fingers. I'll turn them to represent the score of the groups. Right hand my own groups, one finger each. Left hand the opp's.
Re: Taking notes during play
Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:26 am
by Annihilist
oren wrote:Keeping notes with pencil and paper seem like a bad crutch to start using. It's best to just keep things in your head. Paper and pencil is generally allowed in order for people to record games.
I agree. You develop the ability to memorise notes better if you keep track in your head, and good habits become second nature over time.