Life In 19x19

I concur with the thoughts on "what is smart?"

I think being smart helps with Go, and maybe it helps teach you various things (like patience, confidence in play, or others), but does it make you smarter?

Personally, I think it is some thing that helps me to enhance my life and broaden my experiences. If that coincides with me getting "smarter", then I guess I would have to answer "Yes".

It made me even more tired

It's funny because the more I learn about Go, the more I realize I don't know. It's an interesting concept, eh?

sparvel wrote:I am not sure, but when i passed 1d i realized that there is no spoon

I would say that playing go has made me think outside the box a little more often. My memory has seen little improvement but improvement all the same. I do seem to play chess a lot better(Less branches to read). Shogi...not so much.

I don't think anything makes you smarter, although you can become more knowledgeable, more experienced in solving certain kinds of problems, or simply more intellectually active.

And like every other over-analytical person, I have to question what "smarter" means.

But, by any definition, I know you can get dumber, and perhaps playing go slows that process a bit.

Not really, but it does make me more pervy...I now know whom to peep, when to peep and what to peep...

I honestly have to say, yes Go does make you smarter. My reasoning is as follows: If I improve at Go, I usually improve in other areas as well. That improvement is what I'm calling "smart".

Suji wrote:I honestly have to say, yes Go does make you smarter. My reasoning is as follows: If I improve at Go, I usually improve in other areas as well. That improvement is what I'm calling "smart".

Oh? What are those other areas and how do you objectively measure their progress?

Helel wrote:

CarlJung wrote:

Suji wrote:I honestly have to say, yes Go does make you smarter. My reasoning is as follows: If I improve at Go, I usually improve in other areas as well. That improvement is what I'm calling "smart".

Oh? What are those other areas and how do you objectively measure their progress?

Objective measure? Are you suggesting that go only makes you feel superior.
My games mainly makes me feel vastly inferior...

Yes. I say that I see no correlation between how I feel about my games and how smart I am. If I feel good and progress, that doesn't mean I'm getting smarter. If I feel bad and lose two stones, that doesn't mean I have gotten more stupid. If I improve at go and improve at something else at the same time, is it go that made the other improvement happen or are there more factors involved? It's probably not go.

Btw, your picture is fantastic!

CarlJung wrote:

Suji wrote:I honestly have to say, yes Go does make you smarter. My reasoning is as follows: If I improve at Go, I usually improve in other areas as well. That improvement is what I'm calling "smart".

Oh? What are those other areas and how do you objectively measure their progress?

Okay, I'll bite.

I've heard of studies (I haven't read any) that state that if someone plays chess their reading and math skills improve. I've played chess for years, and I'm relatively good at reading and math. Did chess improve those areas? I'm not sure. It could be that since I'm decent at those areas I'm more likely to like chess. You could measure progress with some sort of standardized test in reading and math. I'm only guessing that with Go players you'd see the same results.

With Go and Chess I've had to learn patience. I'm better with patience than I was two years ago, though that might be due to the fact that I'm getting older, and *hopefully* more mature.

I could go on, but I think I get your point that just because you improve at something doesn't mean you'll improve in other areas. IMHO you do improve in other areas, but if so I don't think one could accurately measure such improvement.

Here's a list (by no means extensive) of what one *could* improve by learning Go and/or Chess: Critical thinking, Math, Reading, Science, Problem Solving, and Thinking Under Pressure (due to time pressure). You could test most of these with standardized tests, but the problem here is that some people do not test well. Also, testing isn't the greatest way of measuring progress, and I don't have a clue what is the best way is to measure progress.

CarlJung wrote:

Helel wrote:

CarlJung wrote:Oh? What are those other areas and how do you objectively measure their progress?

Objective measure? Are you suggesting that go only makes you feel superior.
My games mainly makes me feel vastly inferior...

Yes. I say that I see no correlation between how I feel about my games and how smart I am. If I feel good and progress, that doesn't mean I'm getting smarter. If I feel bad and lose two stones, that doesn't mean I have gotten more stupid. If I improve at go and improve at something else at the same time, is it go that made the other improvement happen or are there more factors involved? It's probably not go.

I'd be willing to bet that Go helped, if only a little bit.

As for feeling bad and losing stones, of course you're not becoming more stupid. At that point, you might be in a really bad slump.

As for feeling good and progressing, your amount of knowledge in your head has definitely increased (or your understanding has) and I would argue that you would be smarter in that case.

All of this is, of course, IMHO.

It is really a matter of definition, but for me improving skills doesn't equal getting smarter.

Go gives me nice clear metaphors that I can apply to other parts of life (not that go is my only source). It helps order my thinking. So if we identify efficiency of thought with smartness then i suppose. There is a line a friend of mine and I use jokingly "life is so much easier to understand once you can think of it as Go."

One friend I taught go to decided to quit after only a few games saying, "it's too much like life". I didn't understand how he could make such an analogy after only a few games, but it was an interesting observation that he made.

Kirby wrote:One friend I taught go to decided to quit after only a few games saying, "it's too much like life". I didn't understand how he could make such an analogy after only a few games, but it was an interesting observation that he made.

maybe he meant the math game of life, as opposed to the actual living of our lives.
http://www.math.com/students/wonders/life/life.html