The AGA makes me sad.

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Re: The AGA makes me curious

Post by ross »

Violence wrote:Yes, Joaz, the AGA pays someone thousands of dollars to check mail. It was one of Jie Li's complaints when he first entered. I like how we can pay Mrs. Laird to check mail, and yet we can't pay Maeda to come and teach Go.

Great Go association.

WTF? And what's this about "keeping the consistent PO Box out of tradition"?! Sounds more like "tradition" means "padding my pocketbook". I find this whole story very difficult to believe. How much snail-mail do they get anyway? And does the AGA publish an accounting or at least a budget, detailing where they get money and what they spend it on? Googling usgo.org didn't find me anything recent.

Edited to add: of course I find it right after I submit my post:
http://www.usgo.org/resources/downloads/rpt2009.pdf
Last edited by ross on Fri Jun 04, 2010 12:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The AGA makes me sad.

Post by daniel_the_smith »

I certainly hope some reading and filing is involved along with the checking...
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Re: The AGA makes me curious

Post by oren »

ross wrote:WTF? And what's this about "keeping the consistent PO Box out of tradition"?! Sounds more like "tradition" means "padding my pocketbook". I find this whole story very difficult to believe. How much snail-mail do they get anyway? And does the AGA publish an accounting or at least a budget, detailing where they get money and what they spend it on? Googling usgo.org didn't find me anything recent.


I agree with your sentiments.

http://www.usgo.org/org/information.html
Go to main page->About AGA->Organizational Information
http://www.usgo.org/resources/downloads/rpt2009.pdf
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Re: The AGA makes me sad.

Post by Javaness »

The whole Manhattan mailbox thing totally confuses me, why on earth is somebody being paid to take the subway? :roll: Anyway, Tournament Directing a Congress Yuck! What a nightmare that must be. Directing my local tournament stresses me out enough, I couldn't cope with the 500 to 2000 people range.

Paying travel expenses doesn't sound that unreasonable to me, but I don't have any idea of the budget, and I don't know who else was there offering to be a TD.
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Re: The AGA makes me sad.

Post by Violence »

I don't get how board members don't see the conflict of interest here, since Mrs. Laird is being paid, and Mr. Laird is one of the ones who doesn't want things to change.

And on helping the AGA, I was asked to become a TD. I've been a TD in the past for local tournaments, and I have a decent grasp of pairing systems, McMahon, Swiss, bands, etc. I'd be happy to accept, except that I had school eating up most of my time.

I fully intended on becoming a TD now that I have the time to, but the fact of the matter is that AGA has time and again let me down. The continuous membership, the removal of foreign pro support, and now, cutting funds for hard working people while spending tens of thousands per year on checking mail. I'm really not liking what the organization has come to.
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Re: The AGA makes me sad.

Post by pwaldron »

Kirby wrote:I agree that having "reliable" volunteers is, of course, more helpful than having "unreliable" volunteers.

I guess that, just from an external perspective, if I volunteer a little bit, I'd still like for that work to be appreciated. If I volunteer a little bit and feel appreciated, I'd be more inclined to volunteer more and become one of the "reliable" volunteers.


Both of these points are incredibly important, although there don't seem to be many within the AGA who appreciate it.

In my experience reliability is important--there are few things more difficult to deal with than having someone commit to a major undertaking and then falling down. On the other hand, if that happens you have to ask why. Entrusting someone who appears out of nowhere with a significant task is just asking for trouble.

Volunteers need to be eased in to an organization like the AGA. I try to start them off with something easy--a one-shot job consisting of a couple of hours. Something that I could do myself without much trouble if things fall apart. That kind of job lets me figure out whether a person's time estimates are realistic, whether their schedule really allows for volunteering and determine how much support they need. The best job also allows you to introduce them to other volunteers in the organization.

While "unreliable" volunteers certainly exist, I will assert that in the majority of cases it's a case of a volunteer being asked to do too much, too soon, without meaningful support or guidance. When I have a volunteer getting burned out, I feel it reflects poorly on me for selecting an overwhelming task. Usually keeping the volunteer is as simple as giving them a few months off and finding a job more suited to their abilities.

On the second point I have asserted for many years that the AGA does a terrible job of thanking the volunteers who do step forward. Expressing gratitude costs nothing, and yet the AGA seems to be incapable of it. There is no mention in the yearbook nor on the webpage. Even the volunteering page on the usgo.org site has vanished, which is probably just as well since it was unrealistic and out of date. On the positive side, however, the AGA has finally started soliciting nominations for volunteer awards. I've already submitted a nomination.
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Re: The AGA makes me sad.

Post by oren »

Violence, I strongly agree with you on the mail thing and the continuous membership. Both need to be dropped as soon as possible. Both of these conditions are losing AGA money.

I do disagree on paying for TDs to fly to congresses though. I believe you can find people locally willing to do the job and can be trained.

I also think it's important to get foreign pros to attend, but this coming congress is already too expensive as it is. I would be curious to see the budget and what would have to happen to support more pros.
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Re: The AGA makes me sad.

Post by pwaldron »

Violence wrote:I'm glad the organizers were in favor of paying the TD's for their diligence. I think they deserve it.


There are three levels of payment, and it's important to understand what's being discussed.

  • Paying for a TD's accommodations at the congress
  • Paying for a TD's airfare
  • Paying a salary to the TD

As I understand it, the TD's accommodations have been paid for quite some time (Keith, care to correct me). I think the board discussion in question is the relatively recent question of picking up the TD's airfare. For the record, I think picking up the tab to fly a top-notch TD (or two) to the US Open is a bargain. It's a tough job, and I don't think a person should be out of pocket for doing it. They have to take a week of vacation time to run the event, after all.

I'd be a little unhappier about anything more than a token honourarium for the TD, though. Plenty of other people put in a lot of time to the AGA and aren't paid a dime. That is part of volunteering.
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Re: The AGA makes me sad.

Post by pwaldron »

Violence wrote:Mr. Laird is one of the ones who doesn't want things to change.


I don't see where Roy Laird has made a contribution to the discussion. Can you give a citation?
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Re: The AGA makes me sad.

Post by Redbeard »

All this complaining about what the AGA board is doing is fine, but is anyone willing to step up and do anything about it? The AGA board nominations end on June 15. I personally do not have the time or inclination to sit on the AGA board, but I am willing to nominate anyone from L19 who is willing to stand for election. Any takers?
Last edited by Redbeard on Fri Jun 04, 2010 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The AGA makes me sad.

Post by Violence »

My apologies.

Abramson said the older members like to keep the consistent PO Box out of tradition.


In earlier transcriptions of the minutes, I recall Mr. Laird was in favor of the AGA board spending a large amount of money so that the mailbox location would not move, and would be checked regularly.

I'll see if I can find the minutes.
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Re: The AGA makes me sad.

Post by oren »

Redbeard wrote:All this complaining about what the AGA board is doing is fine, but is anyone willing to step up and do anything about it? The AGA board nominations end on June 15. I personally do not have the time or inclination to sit on the AGA board, but I am willing to nominate anyone who from L19 is willing to stand for election. Any takers?


Do you have info on the open seats? I'm trying to find it, but I'm not seeing it immediately.
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Re: The AGA makes me sad.

Post by vash3g »

Oren wrote:Do you have info on the open seats? I'm trying to find it, but I'm not seeing it immediately.


http://www.usgo.org/board/elections.html
Its linked off of the board page: http://www.usgo.org/board and the right side of the home page.
Decisions are made by those who show up.
and possibly those willing to attend secret meetings in ancient basements
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Re: The AGA makes me sad.

Post by daniel_the_smith »

http://www.usgo.org/board/election.html

I would be wiling to give it a shot. I live in the Chicago area and have been running a club here for a number of years.
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Re: The AGA makes me sad.

Post by oren »

vash3g wrote:http://www.usgo.org/board/elections.html
Its linked off of the board page: http://www.usgo.org/board and the right side of the home page.


Thanks, a lot.

I nominate Redbeard for west!
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