Life In 19x19

tchan001 wrote:Notice the style of the majority of 2013 New Korean Pros are mostly fighting and attacking. Will this be the wave of the future of baduk with mainly fast furious attacks dominating patient fuseki?

I read somewhere that this might have something to do with the mickey-mouse-time-limits. In the sense that you lack time to patiently take the game to the last stages because playing a thick and patient game requieres much more careful analyzing of coming endgame and precise counting.

But yeah, it seems there grows yet another generation of professional Go-players, whom I'm personaly not inclined to follow because I find no beauty in their games : (

SoDesuNe wrote:

tchan001 wrote:Notice the style of the majority of 2013 New Korean Pros are mostly fighting and attacking. Will this be the wave of the future of baduk with mainly fast furious attacks dominating patient fuseki?

I read somewhere that this might have something to do with the mickey-mouse-time-limits. In the sense that you lack time to patiently take the game to the last stages because playing a thick and patient game requieres much more careful analyzing of coming endgame and precise counting.

But yeah, it seems there grows yet another generation of professional Go-players, whom I'm personaly not inclined to follow because I find no beauty in their games : (

Many of recent top Japanese pros have very aggressive style, and they usually play in 5~8 hours main time. Check out the games of Iyama Yuta, Cho U, or Yamashita Keigo. I think the time limits have nothing to do with the playing style. Also, in the early 2000s when Lee Changho began to play aggressively, most of Korean tournaments had 3~4 hours main time, which is not "mickey mouse" at all.

Well, I cannot really argue with you about this ^^ It's of course highly subjective and I'm on the other hand far too weak to measure any (if!) decrease in the depth of play of nowadays pros but just for me a lot of games don't feel... harmonic. I am unable to sense beauty like I do when I replay Shuei or Dosaku, who is also a very strong fighter.

But well, it could be just me, so I won't argue ; )

It's probably because the western go population has been shaped a lot by translated japanese go books (theory and commented games) and thus can relate to the balanced japanese style, because they can grasp it.

I for myself, like korean/chinese just as much as japanese. The most exciting games I've seen so far are indeed korean/chinese players games.

SoDesuNe wrote:Well, I cannot really argue with you about this ^^ It's of course highly subjective and I'm on the other hand far too weak to measure any (if!) decrease in the depth of play of nowadays pros but just for me a lot of games don't feel... harmonic. I am unable to sense beauty like I do when I replay Shuei or Dosaku, who is also a very strong fighter.

But well, it could be just me, so I won't argue ; )

Compared to the days they spent on a game, 3-4 hours of main time still seems short.

SoDesuNe wrote:I am unable to sense beauty like I do when I replay Shuei or Dosaku, who is also a very strong fighter.

Well, classical players who were much stronger than all other pros are difficult to evaluate. When your opponents are much weaker than you, then your moves will look more balanced, smooth, natural, and beautiful because the opponent's flaws allow you to take advantage of them. Ironically, it is probably thanks to geniuses like Shuei and Dosaku that today's players have learned to resist their opponent's attempts to make balanced/beautiful shapes. Dosaku was the person who pioneered the theoretical idea of forcing opponents into bad inefficient shapes. Being the first one to come up with that idea, he didn't have too many opponents who could do the same to him.

Many modern pros still play a thick patient style (and are quite successful with it). Xie He comes to mind as a typical example.

SoDesuNe wrote:Well, I cannot really argue with you about this ^^ It's of course highly subjective and I'm on the other hand far too weak to measure any (if!) decrease in the depth of play of nowadays pros but just for me a lot of games don't feel... harmonic. I am unable to sense beauty like I do when I replay Shuei or Dosaku, who is also a very strong fighter.

But well, it could be just me, so I won't argue ; )

Do you mean like this? for a "harmonic" or "beautiful" game?

No. I mean something like this:

SoDesuNe wrote:No.

Could you point out what sort of move in this game made you feel not so?



I really liked your Dosaku game btw.

It's nice that you care but please understand that I will refrain from pointing out specific moves I find odd. I don't have a solid reason for feeling the way I do and I wouldn't like to come across as somebody who criticises a professional players game he doesn't even understand.

I don't enforce the feeling I get from a lot of nowadays games, it just happens when browsing through. I for instance am quite fond of Chen Yaoye.
Maybe when I'm stronger my perception will change, like it did with rejecting influence since back in the days my opponent always found a way to destroy any resulting Moyo. Or the whole business with replaying professional games, which I turned down as being too time-consuming and thus ineffective when I was weaker.