Life In 19x19

Thanks for linking the game! I thought, however, that manhammer was stronger than 1k. His profile on OGS shows that he occupied the #8 ranking at some point. I guess there were fewer players back then. By the way, I hope there's going to be a review of your game against Dinershteyn. There were some fascinating moments in the game (with more to come, I am sure). Also, that unfinished game against Magicwand on this website ... Something has to be done about that, as well.

Here are links to short videos where Dinershteyn explains, first, the wrong way of using a center stone and, then, a better approach to doing so.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 23ajhg0Bo#!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... FImtHxZrEw
Additional videos of his (on other subjects) can be found here: http://breakfast.go4go.net/?Free_Go_lectures_on_video

In the second link, Dinershteyn shows a game between Li Fan and Gan Siyang (b). The game begins as follows:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 4 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . 5 . . . , . 3 . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The critical position in the game is reached on move 21:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . , . X . . X , O . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

In this position, White is leading on points but his stones are in a state of "every corner for itself." Black stones, on the other hand, are much more of a cohesive force. Thus, rather than play passively, which would enable White to connect his groups, Black invades at to break up White's position on the left. This triggered a running fight. The marked Black stone in the center made the running battle appealing for Black.

My intent for this game, before topazg played his moves, was to follow Gan Siyang's strategy:
1). develop quickly;
2). choose outside influence over territory;
3). invade before the opponent has a chance to connect his corner groups;
4). trigger a fight where the stone in the center can come into play.

However, topazg decided to contest my claim to the center which calls for an adjustment to my strategy. I am so far unsure what specific adjustments I will make, but, most likely, I will seek to gain additional strength in the center before proceeding to precipitate a running battle.

The Intrepid wrote:@UberdudeThanks for linking the game! I thought, however, that manhammer was stronger than 1k. His profile on OGS shows that he occupied the #8 ranking at some point. I guess there were fewer players back then. By the way, I hope there's going to be a review of your game against Dinershteyn. There were some fascinating moments in the game (with more to come, I am sure). Also, that unfinished game against Magicwand on this website ... Something has to be done about that, as well.

#8 position on the 19x19 ladder doesn't mean he is 8th best on OGS, it just means he beat whoever was in 8th place. If you look at the ladder you will see it is far from sorted by rank. Yes I will comment on my game vs breakfast and post it here, I hope he will too.

I received an interesting letter this morning. Apparently, I have "impugned" a gentleman's honour by accusing him of having insufficient mental prowess for visionary thinking. I can't think for the life of me to what he might be referring, but I suspect it was a misunderstanding at some point. Either way, he seems truly offended, and has challenged me to a duel "à la outrance" - a situation where honour will only be fulfilled with one of us mortally wounded. No matter, I feel the situation rather amusing if I'm honest. I will respond politely in case of mistaken identity, but if it is truly the case that I have wronged him so heinously, I will enjoy the opportunity to oblige him.

I suspect he is unaware that I have some success as a pistol duelist (unless of course the whole situation is a ruse to satisfy his sense of challenge and adventure), and as I have recently received a pair of beautifully mastercrafted flintlock pistols as a birthday present from my brother-in-law, he may find out that he's bitten off more than he can chew. Still, all in the name of honour and all that, I suppose I ought to brush off the rust and prepare myself for the duelling grounds again. I don't intend to be the person left on the field at the end.

I have nominated my valet Percival to act as my second, I know he enjoys this sort of thing as long as the weather is reasonable.

This is actually a really difficult sort of position to play. Those stones in the middle may be relatively random (although not quite, I promise), but they quickly have an impact on the choices on every other fuseki move. They could be the beginnings of a moyo, the outside stones already in place for a devastating attack, or simply sit on dame as they fail to suitably fulfil any purpose.

I've chosen this 5-3 because if he picks a standard approach, I think I can press him low, keep his first move somewhat floating, and keep him down to only 3rd line territory (all locally speaking of course). I'm hoping that if he chooses a high approach, the local territory gain is good and his first move is too far away to really help develop a moyo from the position. This game is probably going to be quite strongly goverened to who can make their early stones the most useful.

Fun game!

Comments regarding this and previous moves to appear below shortly.

6-4 was first tried during the Shin Fuseki era (mid-1930s) but is rarely played today. Curiously, Gan Siyang whose game I mentioned in one of the posts above likes playing 6-4 a great deal. 6-4, just like 5-4, emphasizes side territory over corner territory. Yet, 6-4's effect on the corner is very weak, which is why most pros probably don't think of 6-4 (absent other stones in the vicinity) as being the most efficient use of a stone on a board with an empty corner. As far as how to approach a corner with a stone at 6-4, there are multiple ways of doint so. However, by far the most common kakari seen in pro games is the keima at 5-4:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc
$$ --------------
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . 1 , . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . X . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |[/go]

My first move was in the center because, as explained previously, my intent was to play a center-stone-first-as-White fuseki. I placed the stone at 8-7 because that is the move manhammer uncorked against Uberdude. However, I think that neither playing a stone in the center nor placing it at 8-7, given topazg's first move, were efficient choices. Had topazg played at 4-4, Gan Siyang's move at 8-8 would work well because of the miai of "a" and "b":

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . a . , . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . b . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

A move at 8-7 would lack such a miai. A stone on the top side is easier to coordinate with the central stone than a stone on the right side, as shown below:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . @ . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . W . . 5 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 5 . . 3 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . Q . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

As can be seen, only one stone is needed to link with (via a 3-space extension + a daidaigeima extension) whereas linking with requires two stones.

Similarly, given that topazg played at 6-4, neither 8-8 nor 8-7 would lead to the same type of miai as above (the value of the right side is reduced because there is a Black stone there already). Therefore, had topazg's 3rd move been at the top-left corner, I would have to play at or near the bottom-right corner. It would not be easy to coordinate White's two stones.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc It's not easy to link with a stone at or in the vicinity of
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . 4 , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

At this point, I probably should make a disclaimer that I have little experience with center-stone-first openings, so my analysis above may or may not be complete nonsense.

topazg could not have anticipated . However, that does not mean it was smart for him to make an impulsive response without taking the time to think over his move. I doubt he actually contemplated how he would follow up or how he would coordinate this stone with his other stones. Now, if he isn't careful, could end up being a dame play (i.e. largely useless). We'll see. As explained in my previous post, I believe that topazg should have played somewhere in the top left corner. Then, it is my central stone that would be at risk of becoming a dame move.

It feels to me like Intrepid is massively over-thinking this.

triggering the next grudge match

With my having a stone in the center, a quick opening development is ideal. This means striving to occupy the most open parts of the board first. After the first three moves, it should be visually apparent that the the top-left corner is the most open area on the board (a part of the board farthest from and least influenced by Black or White stones).

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm1 Top-left is the least occupied part of the board.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

As to why I played at 6-4, there are a few reasons. First, Gan Siyang, whose strategy I sought to employ in this game, likes to play 6-4. Second, 6-4 is also manhammer's move. Third, 6-4 (as well as 5-4) works reasonably well with the White stone in the center as discussed previously. Finally--although I did not think of this at the time--my playing 6-4 might have seem as a further provocation to topazg because he, too, played at 6-4. Thus, my move had a chance of inducing topazg to make another impulsive move. He did not take the (unintentional) bait, however.

topazg's seems strange to me. The most open part of the board is clearly the bottom-right, not the bottom-left, corner.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc Bottom-right is the least occupied part of the board.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Moreover, and are not easy to coordinate with each other. Synergy between them will be hard to achieve. By contrast, if topazg had played 5-4 in the bottom right, he would be establishing contours of a large moyo and would be enabling all of his stones to work together.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc Coordination between and is easier to achieve than between and .
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . B . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . # , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Because topazg did not play in the bottom-right corner (the most open part of the board), sente is very valuable right now. Getting sente is one of the primary objectives of . The most common continuation is this, after which White can tenuki:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc White can tenuki with
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . O . . X . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . 2 O . . . . . . . .
$$ | . 3 1 , . . . . . , . .
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ -------------------------[/go]

Another reason why I used the 5-4 kakari is that it works well with my stone in the center. After the moves in the above diagram, the situation can continue as follows:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc White stones are working well together.
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . O . . X . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . 3 . . . . . .
$$ | . 1 O O . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X , . 2 . . . , . .
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ -------------------------[/go]

Another joseki continuation is the two-space jump, which again works well with the stone in the center.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . O . . X . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O O . . 1 . . . . .
$$ | . X X , . . . . . , . .
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ -------------------------[/go]

Of course, topazg may choose to ignore my approach to his corner. However, I would then seek to attack his stone severely. Given that my stone in the center is closer to the corner than the Black central stone, I could expect to obtain a favorable result.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc The exchange of for is good for White.
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . W . . B . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . 2 . . , . .
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ -------------------------[/go]

Given all this, I like my position, so far. White is poised to take the lead in the game.