48. Dusk Eagle (2k) vs dfan (4k)

Dusk Eagle · Post by **Dusk Eagle** » Tue Jun 15, 2010 10:19 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm14 Move 14. Points from prisoners: W 0, B 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . 1 , X . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

He went low. While I can't say that is wrong, it is definitely not what I would have done. Low is saying "I do not intend to expand along the top side." I'm kind of curious as to why he played the 5-4 if that is the case. Anyway, I'll take some good territory from this, and he'll get influence toward the top. I'm not too worried though, because even if he does get a lot of influence, I will not be hard-pressed to invade the top, as I will have easy reduction moves such as the shoulder-hit if need be.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 Example $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . 6 2 X . . . . . | $$ | . . O , X . . . . , 3 4 1 . . X . . . | $$ | . O . . X . . . . . 7 5 . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I'm starting to think that he might be a bit afraid of me in this game. This move below, for instance, seems to be very passive and lack spirit.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , X . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Couple that with his low extension for safety along the top, and I'm starting to think he just might be afraid. I will have to start to push more and aim for aggression in order to capitalize on the psychological advantage I think I may have.

Dusk Eagle · Post by **Dusk Eagle** » Tue Jun 15, 2010 10:27 pm

amnal wrote:Though I'm not sure, because it's pretty slow and white is already a tad overconcentrated on the right.

This. I obviously saw move 4 that you mentioned, but it also does not appear to be sente against the corner. Meanwhile, black gets a very quick development. That was my fear anyway, perhaps a stronger player can tell me I'm wrong.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 3 , X . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . 2 . X . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

There's also a weakness here I believe, but to play it too early feels more like aji-keshi than anything else, and he will still be able to live in one whole piece. Playing to seal in is obviously better, but like I said, I'm not sure if I'd be able to handle black's rapid development.

dfan · Post by **dfan** » Wed Jun 16, 2010 4:19 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm15 Move 15. Points from prisoners: W 0, B 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . O , X . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

OK, this I cannot tolerate. White is treating this like a handicap game in the way he keeps moving on without shoring up his position. He has played big before urgent, and it is my duty to try to punish him for it.

I played exactly between his two stones so he wouldn't have a good approach from either side, and to make it hard for him to treat his R14 stone lightly the way he could M3, because I'd get so much territory from engulfing it. His lower right group looks pretty strong now, but it could end up being a bit sickly, especially if he spends a lot of time strengthening R14. If I end up being able to attack with O6 or something, then it becomes more of a threat to surround M3 on a large scale.

There are lots of possibilities now, but the only one I looked at in any detail was

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc The ladder works $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . O , X . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 3 4 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 1 . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 7 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Also, for the sector line fans, I can't help pointing out

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . O , X . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ --------------------------------------- $$ {LN O17 R11} $$ {LN O4 R11}[/go]

(of course my new stone is within a sector line of his, too

)

If we get in a running fight I should be able to keep ahead, especially since my upper and lower right corners don't need reinforcing for a while (often in a running fight like this Black needs to take time out to play a move like O17, which I already have).

Dusk Eagle · Post by **Dusk Eagle** » Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:34 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm16 Move 16. Points from prisoners: W 0, B 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . O , X . . . . , . . . . . X 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I accidentally stumbled across this page earlier today, which has the exact shape which occured in the bottom right. Interesting. If that page is to be believed, the move I criticized earlier was proper after all.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . b 1 2 . | $$ | . . O , X . . . . , . . . . . X O 4 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 3 a . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I'll make myself somewhat of a base before continuing. If black plays like this to :b4:

, I'll have to decide between 'a' and 'b'. 'a' splits his pincer stone, while 'b' takes more of the corner and the top.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 Option 'a' $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . X O . | $$ | . . O , X . . . . , . . . . . X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X 1 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 3 O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 Option 'b'. If 4 at x, 5 at 4 and it's worse for black. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 x 3 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 2 1 X O . | $$ | . . O , X . . . . , . . . . . X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X 4 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If I had to choose right now, I would choose option 'a'. But I'll think about it more and decide when the time comes.

dfan · Post by **dfan** » Thu Jun 17, 2010 5:23 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm17 Move 17. Points from prisoners: W 0, B 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . 1 . . | $$ | . . O , X . . . . , . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Dusk Eagle · Post by **Dusk Eagle** » Thu Jun 17, 2010 5:25 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm18 Move 18. Points from prisoners: W 0, B 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . X 1 . | $$ | . . O , X . . . . , . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

schilds · Post by **schilds** » Thu Jun 17, 2010 6:41 pm

dfan · Post by **dfan** » Fri Jun 18, 2010 4:27 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm19 Move 19. Points from prisoners: W 0, B 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . 1 X O . | $$ | . . O , X . . . . , . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Funnily enough I just ran into a very similar position in a problem from Cho Hun-Hyeon's Lectures on Go Techniques vol. 2.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ ------------------ $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . Y . . X O . | $$ . . . . . X O . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . O . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . Y . . |[/go]

The triangled stones may have been in slightly different places but the basic corner configuration was the same. My instinct was to extend:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ ------------------ $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . B . . | $$ . . . X . . X O . | $$ . . . . . X O . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . O . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . X . . |[/go]

but I remember that this was considered too meek; I think White got out into the open too easily. I remember that the solution was the solid connection:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ ------------------ $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . X . B X O . | $$ . . . . . X O . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . O . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . X . . |[/go]

which feels a little tight but makes everything solid and leaves no weaknesses while putting the onus on White to shore up his position. The following seems clearly not to work well for White:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ ------------------ $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . 2 . | $$ . . . X . 1 X O . | $$ . . . . . X O 4 . | $$ . . . . . 6 3 5 . | $$ . . . . . . O 7 . | $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . X . . |[/go]

so I think White has to play a more restrained move, which should then give me the initiative to jump out with my isolated stone.

It's a little dangerous to play moves that I remember reading about rather than ones that are my instinct, since it's easy to play them for the wrong reasons and not follow up well, but I felt pretty good about this one once I put the stone down. My main worry is that it might be a little overconcentrated, so I want to avoid lines that exacerbate that quality.

schilds · Post by **schilds** » Fri Jun 18, 2010 6:06 pm

For dfan

Dusk Eagle · Post by **Dusk Eagle** » Fri Jun 18, 2010 6:24 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm20 Move 20. Points from prisoners: W 0, B 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . | $$ | . . O , X . . . . , . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I believe my move is the proper move for eyeshape.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 1 3 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . | $$ | . . O , X . . . . , . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

At any time I can live like this.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 2 | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . | $$ | . . O , X . . . . , . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

It's gote for him to take away that living option.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . | $$ | . . O , X . . . . , . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If he plays :b1:

, I play

.

The only problem is that he has gotten more powerful in the area, so the top side is becoming a bit threatening again. I should aim to do something about that soon.

Anyway, my group is more or less settled for now, so let's see what he has planned next. I assume it will involve one of these two stones:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . | $$ | . . O , B . . . . , . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If he doesn't help the right stone, I could play as below at some point, and threaten his stone while running near to any top framework he tries to develop.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . | $$ | . . O , X . . . . , . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

dfan · Post by **dfan** » Sat Jun 19, 2010 8:27 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 Move 21. Points from prisoners: W 0, B 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . | $$ | . . O , X . . . . , . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

dfan · Post by **dfan** » Sat Jun 19, 2010 8:32 am

schilds · Post by **schilds** » Sat Jun 19, 2010 6:15 pm

dfan

I guess it's safe to post this now:

If black started this way after white made his 2 moves into the corner (which I think produces a decent result due to the black stone at R11), then white has a choice between a shut in corner, a small (but stable) group on the outside of a big black corner, or the corner and a really weak group splitting two black groups that couldn't care less about being connected.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm18 Move 18. Points from prisoners: W 0, B 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . a X 1 . | $$ | . . O , X . . . . , . . . . c X O 3 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b 2 4 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Anyone can take the corner on their turn by playing at a (black could also play at c - if white has a and black has c, white needs another move to take the corner). White can make a group (weak or otherwise) on the outside with the cut at b.

If white wants a stable group on the outside, he just doesn't have time to come back and take the corner:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm18 Move 18. Points from prisoners: W 0, B 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . a X O . | $$ | . . O , X . . . . , . . . . . X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 O 2 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

There are a few ways it could go at this point, but I think it's clear that white still needs a couple of moves on the outside (and if he takes the corner now, his cutting stones will be no threat to the two black groups (and are in serious danger themselves). Black only needs a to secure his groups.

This looks nice for black (unless I've missed something?). I suppose white pushing through p17 and cutting with o18 might make things a little complicated.

Actually, after a bit of thought (and many many edits of this post, though I've left most of what I originally thought above ... :p), I guess if white wants a presence on the top side, he might just do that. Black gets a big corner, but then his top left stone may get a bit lonely ... So I guess simply connecting might be best after all

.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm18 Move 18. Points from prisoners: W 0, B 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 4 6 . a . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 3 2 X O . | $$ | . . O , X . . . . , . . . . 1 X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Black may have to come back to a, depending.

I still think this doesn't look that good for white, since it looks like he changed his mind several times in the course of a fight, but it's so messy I dunno ...

Dusk Eagle · Post by **Dusk Eagle** » Sun Jun 20, 2010 12:19 pm

I was at a wedding all of yesterday, so I didn't have an opportunity to move.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm22 Move 22. Points from prisoners: W 0, B 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . | $$ | . . O , X . . . . , . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I'm not happy about my move. It is touching a weak stone, and touching weak stones is bad. Touching weak stones is bad because it forces your opponent to respond to the touch, making him stronger. Then, you yourself are touched, so you must respond and get stronger, and in the end everyone ends up stronger as a result. However, if you are already strong and your opponent is weak, making both of you stronger is not to your benefit. However, I feel I have no other choice.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . | $$ | . . O , X . . . . , . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B 3 O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 1 2 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

can't be laddered, and I end up sealed in. His weak group gets stronger, and my bottom-right group starts to feel weak.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . | $$ | . . O , X . . 1 . , . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This might be playable, as I don't think I can get sealed-in in sente. This might actually be better, but I can hear shygost lecturing in his dogmatic way in my head "Don't get sealed in!" Fine, shygost, have it your way!

Anyway, I expect one of the following two things to happen:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . | $$ | . . O , X . . . . , . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 2 O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 1 X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . 5 . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ --------------------------------------- $$ {LN N10 O4}[/go]

Even after :w6:

, my group is still behind black's sector line, so the result isn't great.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . | $$ | . . O , X . . . . , . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 4 2 O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 3 1 X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I don't think he could seal my lower group in very effectively, so I should be okay.

Notice that by getting out, I am also hurting his top side somewhat. If I do end up sealed in, his top side becomes menacing.

Dusk Eagle · Post by **Dusk Eagle** » Sun Jun 20, 2010 2:15 pm

Life In 19x19

48. Dusk Eagle (2k) vs dfan (4k)

Re: 48. Dusk Eagle (2k) vs dfan (4k)

Re: 48. Dusk Eagle (2k) vs dfan (4k)

Re: 48. Dusk Eagle (2k) vs dfan (4k)

Re: 48. Dusk Eagle (2k) vs dfan (4k)

Re: 48. Dusk Eagle (2k) vs dfan (4k)

Re: 48. Dusk Eagle (2k) vs dfan (4k)

Re: 48. Dusk Eagle (2k) vs dfan (4k)

Re: 48. Dusk Eagle (2k) vs dfan (4k)

Re: 48. Dusk Eagle (2k) vs dfan (4k)

Re: 48. Dusk Eagle (2k) vs dfan (4k)

Re: 48. Dusk Eagle (2k) vs dfan (4k)

Re: 48. Dusk Eagle (2k) vs dfan (4k)

Re: 48. Dusk Eagle (2k) vs dfan (4k)

Re: 48. Dusk Eagle (2k) vs dfan (4k)

Re: 48. Dusk Eagle (2k) vs dfan (4k)