Life In 19x19

ikkyu, on a related note, I have a stupid question.

In this article -- Asteroid flies by Earth --
"An asteroid the size of a small truck zoomed past Earth four times closer than the moon on Saturday..."

What does "4 times closer" mean? Does it mean "1/4 as close as," or "1/5 as close as,"
or "less than 1/4 as close as" ?
If the average distance between the Earth and the moon is x,
does this mean the asteroid got as close to Earth as x/4, or x/5, or just less than x/4 ?

If someone says "Amy is 3 times as tall as Joe," I understand Amy's height = (3 * Joe's height).
But if "Amy is 3 times taller than Joe" -- I don't understand; does it mean the same thing?

Similarly, "Amy is half as tall as Joe" -- clear.
But "Amy is two times shorter than Joe" -- (probably awkward English and nobody says that), unclear to me.

EdLee wrote:ikkyu, on a related note, I have a stupid question.

In this article -- Asteroid flies by Earth --
"An asteroid the size of a small truck zoomed past Earth four times closer than the moon on Saturday..."

What does "4 times closer" mean? Does it mean "1/4 as close as," or "1/5 as close as,"
or "less than 1/4 as close as" ?
If the average distance between the Earth and the moon is x,
does this mean the asteroid got as close to Earth as x/4, or x/5, or just less than x/4 ?

I would take it to mean 1/4 as close as.

If someone says "Amy is 3 times as tall as Joe," I understand Amy's height = (3 * Joe's height).
But if "Amy is 3 times taller than Joe" -- I don't understand; does it mean the same thing?

It means the same thing. "1 times taller", which nobody would actually say, would mean Amy is the same height as Joe.

Similarly, "Amy is half as tall as Joe" -- clear.
But "Amy is two times shorter than Joe" -- (probably awkward English and nobody says that), unclear to me.

It's awkward English, but would mean she is 1/2 as tall.

EdLee wrote:If someone says "Amy is 3 times as tall as Joe," I understand Amy's height = (3 * Joe's height).
But if "Amy is 3 times taller than Joe" -- I don't understand; does it mean the same thing?

In the 70's, when I was a young boy, my father was very particular about this (in Finnish of course, but the same principle applies): "3 times taller" is the same thing as "4 times as tall".

Nowadays everyone uses "3 times taller" actually meaning the same thing as "3 times as tall".

e: what really bugs me is that many people say "half bigger" ("puolet isompi" in Finnish) when they actually mean "twice as big". "Half bigger" should mean "1,5 times as big".

tj86430 wrote:

EdLee wrote:If someone says "Amy is 3 times as tall as Joe," I understand Amy's height = (3 * Joe's height).
But if "Amy is 3 times taller than Joe" -- I don't understand; does it mean the same thing?

In the 70's, when I was a young boy, my father was very particular about this (in Finnish of course, but the same principle applies): "3 times taller" is the same thing as "4 times as tall".

Nowadays everyone uses "3 times taller" actually meaning the same thing as "3 times as tall".

e: what really bugs me is that many people say "half bigger" ("puolet isompi" in Finnish) when they actually mean "twice as big". "Half bigger" should mean "1,5 times as big".

Yes this is problematic in English. If I say that are two times more black stones than white stones, it's unambiguous that if there are 10 white stones there are 30 black stones. The "more" is the important part. If, however we're using words like taller or wider they functions strictly as the word "more" there and we should interpret the sentence accordingly. Whereas if we say "as tall" or "as wide" as in your example we are saying two times = x2.

1 times taller does mean twice as tall, however no native English speaker would construct the phrase "one times taller." You never make the one times construction, you would always say twice directly. However, phrases like "3 times taller" are interpreted as "3 times as tall" by many/most/almost all people so while it is a grammatical error on their part we might be seeing the phrase changing, similar to "may I?" vs "can I?" and so on. I'm pretty sure I read a style guide a few years ago that recommended avoiding the "X times more" construction in general use because it is ambiguous (it isn't ambiguous in some fields).

It's usually avoided because most people would say three times as many rather than two times more because it's a lot more intuitive.

tj86430 wrote:"Half bigger" should mean "1,5 times as big".

TJ, thanks. "Buy two, get one FREE!"

Boidhre wrote:I'm pretty sure I read a style guide a few years ago that recommended avoiding the "X times more" construction in general use because it is ambiguous (it isn't ambiguous in some fields).

It's usually avoided because most people would say three times as many rather than two times more because it's a lot more intuitive.

I tend think about these in terms of percentages. If you would say "300% more" instead of "three times more" (or bigger/taller/whatever), it wouldn't be ambiguous, or would it? (similarly "half bigger" is clearly "50% more", not "100% more").

This brings us to earlier question: "4 times closer". That would be "400% closer", which is an impossibility. What is probably meant is "1/4 of the distance" = "75% closer" = "3/4 closer"?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . 6 . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . 7 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Quietimes, I have a quick question: when are you mostly on this forum in terms of time of day?

I ask because I can check our game at a variety of times from about 8am-10pm eastern time in the USA. However, if you're mostly on here around a specific time, I won't check our game when you likely haven't been on.

Thanks. I'm enjoying our game already.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . 8 . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . 7 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Well, most often between 8pm and 10pm EST. I do try and sneak on for a peek during daytime hours.