karaklis wrote:That means just memorizing the position is suboptimal? What would be better then? Memorizing which stones are crucial? Or being able to divide the problem into smaller problems that you already know?
There is a difference between recognizing a problem and memorizing it. To recognize a problem in a book you do not necessarily have to attend to the crucial features. Then later you may misplay a similar position, relying upon faulty memory, faulty because it was incorrectly formed in the first place.
Example: I posted this tsumego on GoDiscussions. (I "discovered" it myself, but I have later found it in an ancient book. )
$$ Black to play $$ ---------------- $$ | . . . O . X X . $$ | . . . . O O X . $$ | O O O O X X X . $$ | X X X X . . . . $$ | . . . . X . . . $$ | . . . . . . . .
[go]$$ Black to play $$ ---------------- $$ | . . . O . X X . $$ | . . . . O O X . $$ | O O O O X X X . $$ | X X X X . . . . $$ | . . . . X . . . $$ | . . . . . . . .[/go]
I don't know how hard it is. I would guess 3-kyu or so. But to my surprise it got at least one incorrect solution attempt from a strong player. (There may have been more than one, but I can't open the thread on GD.) Why? Because it is similar to a well-known tsumego. The player made the right first move for that problem.
Death via bent four (ko depending on rest of the board) is best for both?
$$Bc Black to play $$ ---------------- $$ | 3 1 5 O . X X . $$ | . 2 . 4 O O X . $$ | O O O O X X X . $$ | X X X X . . . . $$ | . . . . X . . . $$ | . . . . . . . .
[go]$$Bc Black to play $$ ---------------- $$ | 3 1 5 O . X X . $$ | . 2 . 4 O O X . $$ | O O O O X X X . $$ | X X X X . . . . $$ | . . . . X . . . $$ | . . . . . . . .[/go]
Re: Redoing problem books?
Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 8:29 am
by Magicwand
daniel_the_smith wrote:
Death via bent four (ko depending on rest of the board) is best for both?
$$Bc Black to play $$ ---------------- $$ | 3 1 5 O . X X . $$ | . 2 . 4 O O X . $$ | O O O O X X X . $$ | X X X X . . . . $$ | . . . . X . . . $$ | . . . . . . . .
[go]$$Bc Black to play $$ ---------------- $$ | 3 1 5 O . X X . $$ | . 2 . 4 O O X . $$ | O O O O X X X . $$ | X X X X . . . . $$ | . . . . X . . . $$ | . . . . . . . .[/go]
white saving them as a ko threat is the best
Re: Redoing problem books?
Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 10:47 am
by tj86430
$$ Black to play $$ ---------------- $$ | . . . O . X X . $$ | . . . B O O X . $$ | O O O O X X X . $$ | X X X X . . . . $$ | . . . . X . . . $$ | . . . . . . . .
[go]$$ Black to play $$ ---------------- $$ | . . . O . X X . $$ | . . . B O O X . $$ | O O O O X X X . $$ | X X X X . . . . $$ | . . . . X . . . $$ | . . . . . . . .[/go]
Re: Redoing problem books?
Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 11:11 am
by fwiffo
Doh! I thought I was so clever for immediately seing this solution...
$$W Under the stonez $$ ---------------- $$ | . 1 . O 5 X X . $$ | . 3 2 4 O O X . $$ | O O O O X X X . $$ | X X X X . . . . $$ | . . . . X . . . $$ | . . . . . . . .
[go]$$W Under the stonez $$ ---------------- $$ | . 1 . O 5 X X . $$ | . 3 2 4 O O X . $$ | O O O O X X X . $$ | X X X X . . . . $$ | . . . . X . . . $$ | . . . . . . . .[/go]
But then I saw that their are much less fancy solutions... Then I saw it was black to kill, not white to live.
Re: Redoing problem books?
Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 11:13 am
by illluck
tj86430 wrote:
$$ Black to play $$ ---------------- $$ | . . . O . X X . $$ | . . . B O O X . $$ | O O O O X X X . $$ | X X X X . . . . $$ | . . . . X . . . $$ | . . . . . . . .
[go]$$ Black to play $$ ---------------- $$ | . . . O . X X . $$ | . . . B O O X . $$ | O O O O X X X . $$ | X X X X . . . . $$ | . . . . X . . . $$ | . . . . . . . .[/go]
Seems to lead to ko?
$$ Black to play $$ ---------------- $$ | . 3 . O . X X . $$ | . 4 2 1 O O X . $$ | O O O O X X X . $$ | X X X X . . . . $$ | . . . . X . . . $$ | . . . . . . . .
[go]$$ Black to play $$ ---------------- $$ | . 3 . O . X X . $$ | . 4 2 1 O O X . $$ | O O O O X X X . $$ | X X X X . . . . $$ | . . . . X . . . $$ | . . . . . . . .[/go]
Re: Redoing problem books?
Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 11:30 am
by daniel_the_smith
Can someone stronger than me confirm that both my move and tj's work?
Re: Redoing problem books?
Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 11:33 am
by Magicwand
daniel_the_smith wrote:Can someone stronger than me confirm that both my move and tj's work?
answer is black kills white by bent 4 in the corner. tj' answer is wrong because white will live by ko.
Re: Redoing problem books?
Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 11:40 am
by daniel_the_smith
Thanks guys (was missing in illuck's second diagram). Nice problem.
Re: Redoing problem books?
Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 3:33 pm
by Jedo
I've decided to reread Life and Death for now since I first went through it a few months ago. Thanks for the input everyone!
Re: Redoing problem books?
Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:50 pm
by kokomi
daniel_the_smith wrote:Do it again. I've done most of my books multiple times. You can always do it upside down if you're worried you'll just be remembering the answers.
upside down is indeed a good advice, next time from left side of book, and then from right side
)
The player made the right first move for that problem.
in illuck's second diagram). Nice problem.