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Re: #232 TIM82 vs Skydyr
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:27 pm
by skydyr
Uberdude wrote: @skydyr
$$Wcm1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm1
It seems you didn't consider this one, which is a good way to establish a settled group in the marked shape.
I didn't write about it, but I did consider it.
$$Bcm1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1
I figured something like this would happen, with white strengthening his group on the other side as well, and black still having some weakenesses if he tenukied right away, so I was reluctant to play this way and give up the corner. Admittedly, my move was a bit impulsive after looking at the 3-3 and 3-4 and rejecting them, but sometimes that's how I play, I guess.
EDIT:
The more I think about this, I kept looking at that move and wanting to play it, and then thinking 'no, that can't be right'. This happens much more than I'd care to admit.
Re: #232 TIM82 vs Skydyr
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:27 pm
by Bill Spight
Notes #7 and #12 unhidden.
Re: #232 TIM82 vs Skydyr
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:30 pm
by TIM82
$$Wcm11
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm11
Like this up to
? Rest of the sequence just shows one reason why
is where it is.
$$Wcm11
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm11
Re: #232 TIM82 vs Skydyr
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:29 pm
by skydyr
$$Wcm11
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm11
Re: #232 TIM82 vs Skydyr
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:08 pm
by TIM82
$$Wcm11
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm11
Re: #232 TIM82 vs Skydyr
Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:29 am
by skydyr
$$Wcm11
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm11
$$Wcm11
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm11
My original plan was to play around B, but this exposes me to being hit on the head at D15, so I'm looking at A but don't like the shape it makes. White's push through gives black shape issues, and white also has sente to approach from the direction of B and ruin black's potential for a base. I haven't found a sharp enough follow-up that white would be forced to defend the top. I don't think breaking into the top side with a weak group and giving white cause to strengthen the rest of it is adequate compensation, especially when I can do something on the left and still leave invasion potential on top.
My main goal here is to get a strong group going so that I don't have to worry about white's potential nearly as much as he has to worry about mine, and I definitely don't want to end up heavy. If I end in sente to take the bottom, that would be nice, but I suspect it's asking way too much, and I'd be comfortable dealing with a white stone at O3 in any case. Given the thinness of white's positions, also, there seems to be a lot of trading potential here regarding the bottom left. I may need to consider a big move at B4 urgent once white gets the bottom side if I can no longer trade for the left side.
It just occurred to me that after the jump at A, I can counter pincer a base-stealing move and start a fight:
$$Wcm11
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm11
I don't see anything great out of this fight, though.
$$Wcm11
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm11
This may have more potential, though
puts the kibosh on a lot of black's options, and hurts the upper group.
$$Wcm11
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm11
This is similarly problematic. Two space extension it is.
Re: #232 TIM82 vs Skydyr
Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:41 am
by TIM82
$$Wcm11
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm11
Re: #232 TIM82 vs Skydyr
Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:45 am
by skydyr
$$Wcm11
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm11
Re: #232 TIM82 vs Skydyr
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 4:46 am
by TIM82
$$Wcm11
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm11
Sadly after 1-4 below, black can ladder 3 by starting with A, which I somehow ignored earlier. So I probably have to defend to stop that, and then black might consider a tenuki to bottom. I would really like to ge to bottom first, but the purpose of my marked move was to threaten
below and I'm going to stick by that.
If I now took some other move than
on top, I would then want to have the marked move at c...
$$Wcm1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm1
Re: #232 TIM82 vs Skydyr
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:10 am
by skydyr
$$Wcm11
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm11
Something like this looks playable, but that's a lot of topside strength white gets. On the other hand, black ends in sente to grab the bottom side, and I think there's still an invasion around K17 or L16 or so. On the other hand, without having ataried at F15, white can atari the other way and black collapses. The other problem is that the C15 stones are weak and can still be cut off.
$$Bc 11 is marked
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bc 11 is marked
Part of me really wants to just jump out:
$$Wcm11
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm11
But the peep afterwards is painful. I suppose I could do this:
$$Bc
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bc
But
above leads to some amount of pain, and I don't see any neat tesuji to save the two stones. On the other hand, those stones aren't doing that much and still retain aji. Maybe I could play this way after:
$$Bc
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bc
But it doesn't seem to lead anywhere good. I suppose tenuki would be fine. Black has decent enough shape and is outside. White's capture is also pretty slow, so he would probably skip it for the time being.
$$Wcm11
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm11
This looks interesting, but it's cuttable without too many direct reprecussions for white.
$$Wcm11
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm11
Something like this may work.
Re: #232 TIM82 vs Skydyr
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:18 am
by TIM82
$$Wcm11
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm11
Re: #232 TIM82 vs Skydyr
Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:25 am
by skydyr
$$Wcm11
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm11
Re: #232 TIM82 vs Skydyr
Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:47 am
by TIM82
$$Wcm21
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm21
Yes, I could throw in a cut first, but the followups seem like below, and I prefer the one with no cut - in the other case I just help Black make shape towards center.
$$Wcm21
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm21$$Wcm21
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm21
Re: #232 TIM82 vs Skydyr
Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 12:58 pm
by skydyr
$$Wcm21
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm21
I'm traveling this week through early next week, so my posting may be sporadic as I get ready and go.
Re: #232 TIM82 vs Skydyr
Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:19 pm
by TIM82
$$Wcm21
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm21
No hurry Skydyr - I'm quite busy myself right now. By the way, on the last week of this month I'll be on a holiday trip - don't know yet if I have reasonably priced internet available or not.
EDIT: added more to the hidden comment
? Rest of the sequence just shows one reason why 
puts the kibosh on a lot of black's options, and hurts the upper group.
below and I'm going to stick by that. 
above leads to some amount of pain, and I don't see any neat tesuji to save the two stones. On the other hand, those stones aren't doing that much and still retain aji. Maybe I could play this way after: