Magicwand vs. Kirby: Four Stones Revisited

daniel_the_smith · Post by **daniel_the_smith** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:29 am

Suji · Post by **Suji** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:30 am

Jedo:

Suji · Post by **Suji** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:33 am

daniel_the_smith wrote:
I did not like or (especially) the subsequent moves. Kirby didn't get enough sleep last night?

yoyoma · Post by **yoyoma** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:35 am

Kirby,

Why no comment about choosing to not atari when Magicwand wedges into a 1 space jump?

daniel_the_smith · Post by **daniel_the_smith** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:41 am

@Suji

At 90, my first thought was:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm81 Has captured: B - 2, W - 1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . O X O . O X O O . O O X . | $$ | . . . . . O X X X . . X X O O O X . . | $$ | . . . X . . O X . X . . X O X X X . . | $$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . X O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . X O . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . . | $$ | X X X . . . . . . . . X X X . O . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | O . O X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . O . . O , O X . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

But then I thought maybe Kirby's move was ok as long as white couldn't extend, IOW, below, black has to be able to play :b92:

. I think it's possible but haven't spent much time reading it.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm91 Has captured: B - 2, W - 1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . O X O . O X O O . O O X . | $$ | . . . . . O X X X . . X X O O O X . . | $$ | . . . X . . O X . X . . X O X X X . . | $$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . X O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . X O . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . . | $$ | X X X . . . . . . . . X X X . O . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | O . O X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . O . . O , O X . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

As for the rest of the sequence... I wouldn't be in those positions so I can't say...

And it seems to me that sacrificing that big group of stones is a horrible idea, though there may not be a way to save them now.

dfan · Post by **dfan** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:47 am

Kirby · Post by **Kirby** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:47 am

yoyoma wrote:Kirby,

Why no comment about choosing to not atari when Magicwand wedges into a 1 space jump?

OK. So I thought about playing this move:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm81 Has captured: B - 2, W - 1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . O X O . O X O O . O O X . | $$ | . . . . . O X X X . . X X O O O X . . | $$ | . . . X . . O X . X . . X O X X X . . | $$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . X O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . X O . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . . | $$ | X X X . . . . . . . . X X X . O . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | O . O X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . O . . O , O X . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I was afraid white would play like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm91 Has captured: B - 2, W - 1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . O X O . O X O O . O O X . | $$ | . . . . . O X X X . . X X O O O X . . | $$ | . . . X . . O X . X . . X O X X X . . | $$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . X O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . X O . X . . . | $$ | . . B . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . B O B . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O 1 O . . . . . . . O . . . . . . | $$ | X X X . . . . . . . . X X X . O . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | O . O X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . O . . O , O X . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . 2 . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

And I thought it would be hard for me to do something with those stones. I was afraid that those stones would be weak (in retrospect, though, maybe I prefer this diagram).

So I thought that I should play a move that helps this group. But at the same time, my large group in the bottom left was also weak. I didn't like this. So I thought, OK, I will play a move that threatens to connect my stones AND helps for eyespace. So I was thinking this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm91 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . O X O . O X O O . O O X . | $$ | . . . . . O X X X . . X X O O O X . . | $$ | . . . X . . O X . X . . X O X X X . . | $$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . X O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . X O . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | 2 O O . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . . | $$ | X X X . . . . . . . . X X X . O . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | O . O X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . O . . O , O X . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . 1 . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

for connecting.

When Magicwand played as he did, I became worried about eyespace for the group:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm91 Has captured: B - 2, W - 1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . O X O . O X O O . O O X . | $$ | . . . . . O X X X . . X X O O O X . . | $$ | . . . X . . O X . X . . X O X X X . . | $$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . X O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . X O . X . . . | $$ | x x X . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . | $$ | x x . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | x X . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | 6 5 X O X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | 4 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | 2 O O 7 O . . . . . . . O . . . . . . | $$ | X X X . . . . . . . . X X X . O . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | O . O X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . O . . O , O X . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . y . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . y y . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I thought that the area with the "x"s didn't have a lot of space for living. But now that I think about it, the area with "y"s was probably also there if we played this way. So maybe my fear was not warranted.

Anyway, when I was afraid of making eyespace with that group, I felt, "OK. I should change plans. I need to get eyespace for that group. Then I will escape with my large group. So I switched to this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm91 want to get eyespace $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . O X O . O X O O . O O X . | $$ | . . . . . O X X X . . X X O O O X . . | $$ | . . . X . . O X . X . . X O X X X . . | $$ | . a O O . O . . . . . . X O . X O . . | $$ | . 0 . . . . . X . O . . X O . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | 8 2 6 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | 3 O O 4 O . . . . . . . O . . . . . . | $$ | X X X 7 . . . . . . . X X X . O . . . | $$ | . O X X . c . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | O . O X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . O . . O , O X . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . b . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . d . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Then I thought, "OK, this group is safe now and has eyespace. Now I just have to worry about the bottom group. But there is the chance he will answer at "a", and even if he does not, I have "b" and "c" as miai.

But now that he took away my option of "b", I don't know if I like the idea of running. I have no eyes, and it is dangerous, now...

So I think that I did make a bad decision. This was the thought process I used to arrive there, though.

hyperpape · Post by **hyperpape** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:49 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm91 Has captured: B - 2, W - 1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . O X O . O X O O . O O X . | $$ | . . . . . O X X X . . X X O O O X . . | $$ | . . . X . . O X . X . . X O X X X . . | $$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . X O . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . X O . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . . | $$ | X X X . . . . . . . . X X X . O . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | O . O X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . O . . O , O X . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm101 Has captured: B - 2, W - 2 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . O X O . O X O O . O O X . | $$ | . . . . . O X X X . . X X O O O X . . | $$ | . . . X . . O X . X . . X O X X X . . | $$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . X O . X O . . | $$ | . X . . . . . X . O . . X O . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | O O O O O . . . . . . . O . . . . . . | $$ | X X X O . . . . . . . X X X . O . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | O . O X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . O . . O , O X . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . 1 . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Sure looks like a lot of aji keshi for one small move against the UL. Ok, there's a little eyespace on the left, but it still doesn't seem worth it.

Kirby · Post by **Kirby** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:49 am

Suji · Post by **Suji** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:53 am

@daniel:

Kirby · Post by **Kirby** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:56 am

I have seen your move, Magicwand. I will need some time to think about this situation, though. I think that I have made some mistakes.

hyperpape · Post by **hyperpape** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 11:06 am

Horibe · Post by **Horibe** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 11:38 am

hyperpape wrote:
Magicwand: "I am winning by a thousand. I can pass, and my opponent will have no chance."
Kirby: "I have made mistakes, I must think carefully."

And he says this in public.

Learn to trash talk, Kirby!

hyperpape · Post by **hyperpape** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 11:54 am

@horibe:

Kirby · Post by **Kirby** » Wed Sep 29, 2010 8:59 am

Sorry for the delay... I guess I might as well get this over with...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm101 Has captured: B - 2, W - 2 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . O X O . O X O O . O O X . | $$ | . . . . . O X X X . . X X O O O X . . | $$ | . . . X . . O X . X . . X O X X X . . | $$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . X O . X O . . | $$ | . X . . . . . X . O . . X O . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | O O O O O . . . . . . . O . . . . . . | $$ | X X X O . . . . . . . X X X . O . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | O . O X . 2 . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . O . . O , O X . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Life In 19x19

Magicwand vs. Kirby: Four Stones Revisited

Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby: Four Stones Revisited

Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby: Four Stones Revisited

Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby: Four Stones Revisited

Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby: Four Stones Revisited

Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby: Four Stones Revisited

Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby: Four Stones Revisited

Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby: Four Stones Revisited

Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby: Four Stones Revisited

Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby: Four Stones Revisited

Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby: Four Stones Revisited

Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby: Four Stones Revisited

Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby: Four Stones Revisited

Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby: Four Stones Revisited

Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby: Four Stones Revisited

Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby: Four Stones Revisited