Page 11 of 16

Re: Magic Wand vs. Yithril

Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 3:07 pm
by Magicwand
i think this should have been correct answer to my move.
ko threat??? yes..he should have let me live and save his two stone.

then again..what do i know... i am only 5dan.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm101 PRISONERS B:3 W:1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X O O . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 C X X X O O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X X X , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . O . O O X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . X . X O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . O X O . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . X X O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . , . O O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X X . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X O B B O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O . O . O O O . O O . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: Magic Wand vs. Yithril

Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 4:45 pm
by yithril
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm101 PRISONERS B:3 W:1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X O O O 3 X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X X X O O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X X X , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . O . O O X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . X . X O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . O X O . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . X X O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . , . O O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X X . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X O X X O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O . O . O O O . O O . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Hmm, fun.

Re: Magic Wand vs. Yithril

Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 4:55 pm
by Magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm101 PRISONERS B:3 W:1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O 4 X O O O X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X X X O O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X X X , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . O . O O X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . X . X O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . O X O . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . X X O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . , . O O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X X . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X O X X O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O . O . O O O . O O . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: Magic Wand vs. Yithril

Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 5:02 pm
by emeraldemon
@Magicwand
Why not take the ko first? It seems like the ko is bigger than killing the group, isn't it?

Re: Magic Wand vs. Yithril

Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 5:06 pm
by yithril
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm101 PRISONERS B:3 W:1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X O O O X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X X X O O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X X X , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . O . O O X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X X . 5 . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . X . X O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . O X O . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . X X O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . , . O O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X X . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X O X X O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O . O . O O O . O O . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: Magic Wand vs. Yithril

Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 5:17 pm
by Magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm101 PRISONERS B:5 W:1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X O O O X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X X X O O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X X X , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . O . O O X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . 8 X X . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . X . X O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . O X . 7 . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . 6 X X O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . , . O O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X X . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X O X X O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O . O . O O O . O O . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

let me know if you disagree.
emeraldemon wrote:@Magicwand
Why not take the ko first? It seems like the ko is bigger than killing the group, isn't it?
if i play any further...i would lose more points with distroying my aji.
ko was not what i was after...i used it to make sure i capture the top.

i think i am satisfied and will win easily.

Re: Magic Wand vs. Yithril

Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 5:26 pm
by yithril
I do not agree.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm101 PRISONERS B:5 W:1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X O O O X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X X X O O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X X X , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . O 7 O O X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X X . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . X . X O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . O X O . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . 6 X X O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . , . O O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X X . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X O X X O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O . O . O O O . O O . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: Magic Wand vs. Yithril

Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 5:43 pm
by Magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm101 PRISONERS B:5 W:1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X O O O X X . . . 8 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X X X O O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X X X , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . O X O O X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X X . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . X . X O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . O X O . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . 6 X X O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . , . O O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X X . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X O X X O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O . O . O O O . O O . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


wow... when i had a winning chance...i misread. i hate to play this game..when kids are screaming :(
i think i am going to lose this game... i am behind too much and i dont think i can win.

Re: Magic Wand vs. Yithril

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:29 am
by Kirby
Big change of attitude in one move.

Re: Magic Wand vs. Yithril

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:34 am
by Chew Terr
Magicwand:
Would you mind explaining the 8 you chose in your last diagram? Is there a reason it's better than, say, K16, which seems like the 'obvious' kyu answer? Or are you just trying to be more aggressive in because you feel like you're behind?

Re: Magic Wand vs. Yithril

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:47 am
by lightvector
@Chew:
I might have a detail or two wrong, but I'm seeing something like this currently:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X O O O X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X X X O O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . 3 1 4 5 X X X , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . O X O O X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . 6 . 2 X X . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . X . X O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . O X O . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . O X X O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . , . O O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X X . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X O X X O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O . O . O O O . O O . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


White can't break through:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W variation 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X O O O X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X X X O O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . 3 1 4 O O . O X X X , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . 2 5 O X O O X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X 6 X X X . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . X . X O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . O X O . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . O X X O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . , . O O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X X . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X O X X O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O . O . O O O . O O . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Neither can white break through like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W variation 2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X O O O X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X X X O O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . 9 7 0 O O . O X X X , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . 8 2 1 O X O O X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . 5 X 3 X X X . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . 6 4 . X . X O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . O X O . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . O X X O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . , . O O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X X . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X O X X O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O . O . O O O . O O . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


And either way, this happens:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Either way...
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X O O O X X . 2 4 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X X X O O O 3 5 6 . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O O X O O 1 O X X X , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . X X O O X O O X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X O X X X . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . X X . X . X O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . O X O . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . O X X O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . , . O O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X X . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X O X X O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O . O . O O O . O O . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: Magic Wand vs. Yithril

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:54 am
by Chew Terr
LightVector:
Thanks, 6 is the move my brain wasn't seeing.

Re: Magic Wand vs. Yithril

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 12:38 pm
by Laman
but even with the actual white's move i see little good for him:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Diagram 163-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X O O O X X . . . W . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X X X O O O a . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . 3 1 2 X X X , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . O X O O X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X X . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . X . X O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . O X O b . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . O X X O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . , . O O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X X . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X O X X O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O . O . O O O . O O . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

this way black group returns to live and white has troubles living himself, having major weakness at 'a'. 2 can be omitted to prevent it, but without much overall difference. and if black gets sente to capture at 'b', it looks like a gameover

too bad, i cheered for Magicwand whole game

Re: Magic Wand vs. Yithril

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 6:19 pm
by yithril
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm101 PRISONERS B:5 W:1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X O O O X X . . . O . 9 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X X X O O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X X X , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . O X O O X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X X . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . X . X O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . O X O . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . O X X O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . , . O O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X X . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X O X X O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O . O . O O O . O O . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

His atari was way too early. I'm not letting this chance get away.

Re: Magic Wand vs. Yithril

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 9:24 pm
by yithril
So just to explain to folks what is going on, the atari was A) Utterly unnecessary and B) Not as big as this sequence.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 PRISONERS B:5 W:1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X O O O X X . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X X X O O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . 8 6 9 4 2 . . X X X , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . 7 0 O 1 O O X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . 5 . 3 X X . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . X . X O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . O X O . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . O X X O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . , . O O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X X . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X O X X O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O . O . O O O . O O . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 PRISONERS B:5 W:1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X O O O X X . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X X X O O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O O X O O 1 2 X X X , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . X O O X O O X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X 3 X X X . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . X . X O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . O X O . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . O X X O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . , . O O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X X . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X O X X O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O . O . O O O . O O . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


White cannot get out through my blockade. If I capture this group I singlehandedly save my top group and take the upper right corner. If I get sente I answer his atari and there is no means for him to win.

I'm not sure what happened but White's strategy has been hasty ever since he played at the bottom.