103. EdLee vs topazg

Post Reply
Puppycakes
Lives with ko
Posts: 175
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 2:31 am
Rank: 2Q
GD Posts: 0
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: 103. EdLee vs topazg

Post by Puppycakes »

I'm with topaz that I don't like Ed's last move. It think it does concede too much in the way of eye space. For a bit, I was thinking that Ed was outplaying topaz. His attack on the left gave him some good thickness and he played a double approach that I liked. But his result on the top turned out terrible once he sacrificed his topside stone. That was worth a lot of points. I think that he can still make some points by attacking topaz's left side group, but overall, I think that this play and the need to sacrifice the stone on the top worked out great for topaz.

It looks to me like topaz has more territory right now. I think that Ed needs to attack topaz's right side group soon.
Top
User avatar
EdLee
Honinbo
Posts: 8859
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:49 pm
GD Posts: 312
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Has thanked: 349 times
Been thanked: 2070 times

Post by EdLee »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm76 Prisoners :b1:
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . O . . X . . X . . X O . |
$$ | . . O O O O X X X , . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . O O . . . . . . X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . O X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . O X . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X . X . O X O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O O . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X X . 1 . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
The :b1: hane seems a bit precarious for B...?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . 3 . . . . .
$$ | . . 6 O O 1 . . . O .
$$ | . . 4 X X 2 O . . . .
$$ | . . 5 . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ -----------------------[/go]
Top
User avatar
Joaz Banbeck
Judan
Posts: 5546
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 11:30 am
Rank: 1D AGA
GD Posts: 1512
Kaya handle: Test
Location: Banbeck Vale
Has thanked: 1080 times
Been thanked: 1434 times

Re: 103. EdLee vs topazg

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

@EdLee:
Why do you not play the proverbial hane at the head of two stones?
Help make L19 more organized. Make an index: https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5207
Top
User avatar
EdLee
Honinbo
Posts: 8859
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:49 pm
GD Posts: 312
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Has thanked: 349 times
Been thanked: 2070 times

Post by EdLee »

Joaz,
Joaz Banbeck wrote:Why do you not play the proverbial hane at the head of two stones?
Good question. I read many variations here, for W(a) nobi, W(b) hane, W(c), and others.
My conclusions: Unclear. :oops: I went with my feelings on this one (as I did with other previous moves.) :mrgreen:
Let's see topazg's replies here, then maybe I can post some variations of my mixed feelings.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . O O a . . . O .
$$ | . . . X X b c . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ -----------------------[/go]
Top
User avatar
topazg
Tengen
Posts: 4511
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:08 am
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Location: Chatteris, UK
Has thanked: 1579 times
Been thanked: 650 times
Contact:
Contact topazg

Re: 103. EdLee vs topazg

Post by topazg »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm76 Prisoners :b1:
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . O . . X . . X . . X O . |
$$ | . . O O O O X X X , . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . O O . . . . . . X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . O X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . O X . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X . X . O X O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O O . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X X 2 1 . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


Rejected moves:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm76 Prisoners :b1:
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . O . . X . . X . . X O . |
$$ | . . O O O O X X X , . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . O O . . . . . . X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . O X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . O X . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X . X . O X O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O O . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O O b . . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . a c X X . 1 . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . d . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
Top
User avatar
EdLee
Honinbo
Posts: 8859
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:49 pm
GD Posts: 312
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Has thanked: 349 times
Been thanked: 2070 times

Post by EdLee »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm78 Prisoners :b1:
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . O . . X . . X . . X O . |
$$ | . . O O O O X X X , . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . O O . . . . . . X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . O X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . O X . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X . X . O X O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O O . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O O . 1 . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

Joaz,
I think I mis-read. :-? I thought I could not double hane with :w3::
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Prisoners :b1:
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . O O 5 . . . O .
$$ | . . 0 X X 1 4 . . . .
$$ | . . . 9 7 2 3 6 . . .
$$ | . . . . . . 8 . . . .
$$ -----------------------[/go]
But I missed :w15::
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm11 Prisoners :b1: :w1:
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . .
$$ | 5 O . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . 4 . O O O . . . O .
$$ | . 2 X X X O X . . . .
$$ | . 3 1 O O X C X . . .
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . .
$$ -----------------------[/go]
We'll find out the cost of this mistake soon enough. :sad:
(p)
My feeling was correct, but I mis-read in my mis-reading! :mrgreen: It's a ko:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm11
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . .
$$ | 7 X O . . . . . . . .
$$ | 4 O 6 . . . . . . . .
$$ | 5 8 9 O O O . . . O .
$$ | . 2 X X X O X . . . .
$$ | . 3 1 O O X C X . . .
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . .
$$ -----------------------[/go]
Last edited by EdLee on Thu Mar 31, 2011 10:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Top
User avatar
topazg
Tengen
Posts: 4511
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:08 am
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Location: Chatteris, UK
Has thanked: 1579 times
Been thanked: 650 times
Contact:
Contact topazg

Re: 103. EdLee vs topazg

Post by topazg »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm78 Prisoners :b1:
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . O . . X . . X . . X O . |
$$ | . . O O O O X X X , . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . O O . . . . . . X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . O X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . O X . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X . X . O X O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O O . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O O . 1 . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . 2 . X X X O . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


I pushed again because either a) he would play to the left of where he did and just give me a bigger corner - I'd hane underneath in sente and be fully live, or b) he would play here, and leave himself some slightly awkward cutting aji of his own.
Top
User avatar
Joaz Banbeck
Judan
Posts: 5546
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 11:30 am
Rank: 1D AGA
GD Posts: 1512
Kaya handle: Test
Location: Banbeck Vale
Has thanked: 1080 times
Been thanked: 1434 times

Re: 103. EdLee vs topazg

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

[UNhide]Maybe Topazg missed something?

EdLee can now play 3 as below. It is not quite explicit sente, but I think that it becomes sente if black ever loses the liberty at 'a':

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ | . . . X . X O O . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . 3 O O a 1 . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . 2 . X X X O . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


However, it looks better for black if he gets C4 first:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ | . . . X . X O O . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O . . b . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . 2 O O a 1 . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

Now if black pushes at 'a', and white blocks, there is a vicious cut at 'b'.

One variation is like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ | . . . X . X O O . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . 3 2 O O a 1 . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . 4 X X X O . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

...which continues like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Too complex to analyze exhaustively at this hour of the morning,\nbut it looks bad for white.
$$ | . . . X . X O O . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . X O . 5 . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O O 4 3 2 a . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . O X O O 1 O . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X X X X O . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


Or - going back a few diagrams - white can play 3 like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ | . . . X . X O O . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . 4 2 O O a 1 . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
[/hide]
Help make L19 more organized. Make an index: https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5207
Top
Horibe
Lives with ko
Posts: 206
Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2010 8:02 am
GD Posts: 248
Has thanked: 33 times
Been thanked: 60 times

Re: 103. EdLee vs topazg

Post by Horibe »

In response to Joaz:
Your analysis is interesting, but I think you have to consider what if white cuts at c3 in response to your move?
Top
User avatar
Joaz Banbeck
Judan
Posts: 5546
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 11:30 am
Rank: 1D AGA
GD Posts: 1512
Kaya handle: Test
Location: Banbeck Vale
Has thanked: 1080 times
Been thanked: 1434 times

Re: 103. EdLee vs topazg

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

Horibe wrote:In response to Joaz:[UNhide]Your analysis is interesting, but I think you have to consider what if white cuts at c3 in response to your move?[/hide]

@Horibe: An interesting question.
[UNhide]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ | . . . X . X O O . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . 7 2 O O 8 1 . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . 5 3 X X X O . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . 6 4 . . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ | . . . X . X O O . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . X O . 4 . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O . 3 2 O . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . O X O O X O . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O X X X O . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . X X . . a X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


At this point, white cannot play 'a':

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ | . . . X . X O O . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . X O 4 X . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O 5 O X O . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . O X O O X O . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O X X X O . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . X X . 2 1 X O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

...which continues like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Lotsa dead white stones in this line.
$$ | . . . X . X O O . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . 9 . X . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . 8 X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . 7 6 4 5 . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . X O X X 2 3 . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O O O X O 1 . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . O . O O X O . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O X X X O . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . X X . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


I can't claim to have analyzed this exhaustively, but lots of bad stuff can happen, and most of it seems to happen to white.[/hide]
Help make L19 more organized. Make an index: https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5207
Top
Horibe
Lives with ko
Posts: 206
Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2010 8:02 am
GD Posts: 248
Has thanked: 33 times
Been thanked: 60 times

Re: 103. EdLee vs topazg

Post by Horibe »

Thanks Joaz...
White 7 at your 15 might make a difference...
Top
User avatar
Loons
Gosei
Posts: 1378
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:17 am
GD Posts: 0
Location: wHam!lton, Aotearoa
Has thanked: 253 times
Been thanked: 105 times

Re: 103. EdLee vs topazg

Post by Loons »

Man, the left is just so boring though. I want to see white moves like a, b and c!


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm78 Prisoners :b1:
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . O . . X . . X . . X O . |
$$ | . . O O O O X X X , . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . O O . c . . . . X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . O X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . O X . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X . X . O X O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O O . , . . b . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O a . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O O . O . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . X . X X X O . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
Revisiting Go - Study Journal
My Programming Blog - About the evolution of my go bot.
Top
User avatar
Joaz Banbeck
Judan
Posts: 5546
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 11:30 am
Rank: 1D AGA
GD Posts: 1512
Kaya handle: Test
Location: Banbeck Vale
Has thanked: 1080 times
Been thanked: 1434 times

Re: 103. EdLee vs topazg

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

Horibe wrote:Thanks Joaz... [UNhide]White 7 at your 15 might make a difference...[/hide]


@Horibe: [UNhide]Ahhh...you mean this variation?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ | . . . X . X O O . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O 7 . . 9 . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . 2 O O 8 1 . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . 5 3 X X X O . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . 6 4 . . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

It goes like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc We're heading for a ko...
$$ | . . . X . X O O . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O O . 2 O . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O X X X O . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

...one variation goes like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc White can play 3 like this. ( 5 @ C4 )
$$ | . . . X . X O O . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . 6 . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O O 4 2 O . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . 3 X O O X O . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O X X X O . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . X X . 8 7 X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc How big of a ko threat does white have?
$$ | . . . X . X O O . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O O X X O . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . O O O O X O . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O X X X O . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . X X . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 2 3 O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

...another variation goes like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc or 3 like this
$$ | . . . X . X O O . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . X O . 4 . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O O 3 2 O . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O X X X O . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . X X . 6 5 X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 8 9 . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Again, how big of a ko threat does white have?
$$ | . . . X . X O O . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . X O . X . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O O O X O . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O X X X O . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . X X . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


When the smoke clears, the best white can hope for is his biggest ko threat granted in return for this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ | . . . X . X O O . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O O X X O . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . O O O O X O . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O X X X O . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . X X . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


And this assumes that EdLee wends his way through all the pitfalls to get here.[/hide]

Loons wrote:
Man, the left is just so boring ...


Sigh. White can threaten black's right side group. It's huge, so white wins the ko.
Yep, you're right, it's boring.
Help make L19 more organized. Make an index: https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5207
Top
User avatar
Joaz Banbeck
Judan
Posts: 5546
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 11:30 am
Rank: 1D AGA
GD Posts: 1512
Kaya handle: Test
Location: Banbeck Vale
Has thanked: 1080 times
Been thanked: 1434 times

Re: 103. EdLee vs topazg

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

[UNhide]Ultimately, best play by both sides looks like this, I think:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ | . . . X . X O O . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O O . . O . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O X X X O . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . X X . . 2 X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

...where black is alive, and white must protect at least one of the cutting points. So black finishes with sente.[/hide]
Help make L19 more organized. Make an index: https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5207
Top
User avatar
EdLee
Honinbo
Posts: 8859
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:49 pm
GD Posts: 312
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Has thanked: 349 times
Been thanked: 2070 times

Post by EdLee »

Current candidates under investigation: :study:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ | . X . . . . . .
$$ | . X O . e . d .
$$ | . O . . . . . .
$$ | . c b O O a O .
$$ | . X . X X X O .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ -----------------[/go]
Top
Post Reply

Return to “1-on-1 Malkovich games”