Ian Butler's Go Journal

Knotwilg · Post by **Knotwilg** » Thu May 02, 2019 9:21 am

Ian Butler wrote:Even though this shouldn't bother me, it does a bit: after the intense camp, I feel a bit disappointed not to experience any improvement. In about three months, it'll be a year since I've had any noticable improvement. After my first six months of improving rapidly, it's a hard pill to swallow.

Clearly it is not sufficient for you to merely study. You also want to play and win. There's nothing wrong with that - it's inherent to a competitive occupation like Go. Put yourself into the conditions to obtain those results. Which are:

- take deliberate time to be in front of your computer and play an online game with decent time settings and start with the single objective to play your best possible game
- this time should be one where you are well awake, not drinking alcohol (I don't think that's a problem in your case) and emotionally balanced
- you are not feeling guilty about playing online go while you could be playing music or writing poetry: you have made the deliberate choice to be a competitive go player, at least in this time frame

in the game
- you apply fighting spirit; you won't resign easily; you resist your opponent's story telling; but you also resist your own desire to make it a quick ending; you are not overly submissive nor overly greedy
- you use your time and that of your opponent to think through the variations
- you remain focused but not anxious; you play the opening you think is best; you apply the principles and techniques you know in the middle game; in the end game you are on your guard for shrinking liberties, groups suddenly cut off

after the game
- whether you won or lost, you make a quick review
- if you won, you allow yourself to be happy with the win, without seeing it as the great breakthrough to shodan, or as a long overdue merit
- if you lost, you allow yourself to be disappointed, without seeing it as yet another proof point you totally suck, or as an evil spell on you

and you get on.

Bill Spight · Post by **Bill Spight** » Thu May 02, 2019 9:23 am

Ian Butler wrote: 4) Even though this shouldn't bother me, it does a bit: after the intense camp, I feel a bit disappointed not to experience any improvement. In about three months, it'll be a year since I've had any noticable improvement. After my first six months of improving rapidly, it's a hard pill to swallow.

Are you playing against stronger players? I know it's kind of the old wive's tale about how to get stronger, but it worked for me.

One piece of advice pros give about how to get stronger is to play three stone games as Black. (OC, that was in the day when White did not give komi in handicap games. I don't know about online play today.)

yakcyll · Post by **yakcyll** » Thu May 02, 2019 9:58 am

Ian Butler wrote:4) Even though this shouldn't bother me, it does a bit: after the intense camp, I feel a bit disappointed not to experience any improvement. In about three months, it'll be a year since I've had any noticable improvement. After my first six months of improving rapidly, it's a hard pill to swallow.

Similarities continue

Stay focused on what you enjoy or what drives you forward. Other than that, do keep playing in the EYD, I'm looking forward to our match in two weeks

If playing online is still a stressful experience, then I'd suggest focusing solely on EYD for now. Play the league games, most importantly stay focused during reviews, maybe watch reviews from other groups, look at the lectures that either are directly related to what you're struggling with or interest you enough for you to pick up new ideas from. Have the study and practice there be an experience you enjoy instead of one you feel compelled to come back to for irrelevant reasons. Regarding new ideas, I can recommend picking up the habit of regularly writing down your experiences, impressions, ideas related to Go in a notebook or a diary; been doing it for a couple of weeks and it has already helped me a lot with organizing my thoughts and retaining advice given by others.

I've been researching and diving into some books on sports psychology and mindsets lately. If I find anything relatable, I'll make sure to share it; of interest may be, for example, Andrew Jackson's workshop at the AGC2013 on some theory behind teaching and practicing.

dfan · Post by **dfan** » Thu May 02, 2019 10:14 am

Ian Butler wrote:I'm now in In-Seong's Yunnguseng for three months, so the timing is a bit unfortunate.

Actually, one of the things I really like about YD is that no matter what my current level of excitement about Go is, I'm still always going to play one serious game a week that I give my full concentration, which will be reviewed by a very strong player.

I tend to get obsessive about topics for a while and then put them aside "for a little while" and forget to come back to them, so it is really nice to have a steady pulse of my weekly game that is guaranteed to keep my level of engagement at a low simmer that, as a friend of mine recently put it, "stops the pilot light from going out."

Ian Butler · Post by **Ian Butler** » Fri May 03, 2019 7:24 am

Thanks for the great responses.
Actually, after that post, I played a great game in In-Seong's Yunguseng.

Eventually I lost on time (really not used to Canadian Byo-Yomi), score estimator had it at a 0.5 point game, so quite a thriller.
The review was also helpful.

Practical things to remember for next league game:
- stop putting stones on the actual board when Byo-Yomi kicks in, then you need to keep watching the screen for time.
- Fight where you are strong, play solid and don't fight in your opponent's sphere of influence.

One particular sequence I'm relatively proud of, I'll share here!
(I am white)

This was the situation

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$ Position at move 35 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X O . | $$ | . . . X O . . . . . . O . . . X X . . | $$ | . . X , O . . O . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O O X . . | $$ | . . X . O . . O . . . . . O . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I invaded:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W Moves 36 to 45 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X O . | $$ | . . . X O . . . . . . O . . . X X . . | $$ | . . X , O . . O . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 3 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 5 4 X 0 . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 8 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O O X . . | $$ | . . X . O . . O . . . . . O . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This was good, aiming at the weakness at 'a', sacrificing the one stone.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W Moves 46 to 55 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X O . | $$ | . 0 5 X O . . . . . . O . . . X X . . | $$ | . . X 3 O . . O . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . 4 1 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 6 X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O 7 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X X X 8 . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O O X . . | $$ | . . X . O . . O . . . . . O . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Only here in the follow up I missed a chance to be more severe. Instead of

, I should play

myself to put pressure on black's group!

Nevertheless, I was happy about finding these moves.
Of course, there were also some big mistakes in the game, but it's nice to focus on the positives, too, right

Uberdude · Post by **Uberdude** » Fri May 03, 2019 9:17 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W Moves 36 to 39 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X O . | $$ | . . . X O . . . . . . O . . . X X . . | $$ | . . X , O . . O . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O O X . . | $$ | . . X . O . . O . . . . . O . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This 3 (1 invade a 4th line with knight move, 2 pincer, 3 inside kosumi willing to sacrifice 1 for sente 2nd line hane connect) is indeed an impressive technique, which I only learned of a few years ago as a dan player. Did you come up with it yourself or had you learnt it at the Go camp or something? Funnily enough someone recently asked about it on a facebook go group, I recommended one of Inseong's AlphaGo videos as related material: https://www.facebook.com/groups/go.igo. ... 050511514/.

7 hanging connection is also impressive. DDKs love to play hanging connection when solid is better. I think people around your strength and into dan tend to know solid connection is the default good move but this causes an overcorrection because sometimes, as here, hanging is better. Indeed even world champion 9ps sometimes play solid when hanging is better (according to AlphaGo Teach): https://www.alphago-games.com/view/even ... 34/move/29.

Ian Butler · Post by **Ian Butler** » Sat May 04, 2019 3:27 am

Thank you so much, Uberdude

Yes, I thought hanging was better because it aims at the weakness more. I think black makes a mistake by not giving atari straight away and then connecting (maybe solidly).

Anyway, I had just learned of the technique, like a day before

but I had seen it in a different context.
Something like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c Situation $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . X . . b . O . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . a . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Where the normal move is to play a en perhaps later b, you can play b instantly if you're strong enough and if white is weak.
So I took this technique and applied it in my invasion, mostly because of the spacing and the weakness at the top left corner.

Ian Butler · Post by **Ian Butler** » Sun May 12, 2019 12:28 am

Today I have my third game in In-Seong's Yunguseng Dojang. And it's against a fellow L19 member, yakcyll!
I am looking forward to playing, and so far the reviews have been very interesting.

This time, though, I should watch out for Byo-Yomi. As soon as I see less than a minute on the clock, I will stop putting down actual stones on an actual board and move my laptop to my desk so I can focus more on the time.

But besides that, I have also had some moments of doubt these last few days. It would be unlike me to not have those

It's something I'll have to figure out for myself, but here it is nonetheless:

- I have been thinking that the Yunguseng is definitely good for my Go. I think that's pretty straightforward and logical.
However, I don't know yet if I will continue it past one season. some days I think: I'll continue it for years and years.
Other days I think: I won't.
Some days I even think I might stop playing Go altogether.

Now why do ideas like that pop up in my head? Because clearly I love Go, it's an amazing game.
The only reason I can think of is the stress it brings. These league games are on my mind often because, obviously, you want to do well.
But even in normal games, online or offline, you usually have some stress.
Most people are used to stress, but I think I'm a person that can't handle stress very well.

In fact, I think one of the main reasons I dislike any form of competition, is the stress that comes with it.
It is also probably why my favorite hobbies include reading (no stress whatsoever, no competition), making music (no stress, no competition), cycling (on my own, no stress, no competition), playing co-operative boardgames (some stress, but no competition and it's positive stress of trying to beat the game together)

Go is very competitive and then I get stress that I wish I could get rid of.
The reason why I get this stress is probably harder to discover. Is it a fear of losing? A pressure of wanting to be stronger quicker? Is it simply in my nature to have this stress in a competitive game?

I don't know. All I know is that it would be a shame to stop playing Go. But on the other hand, the stress shouldn't actually effect my life in a negative way, because then why do you do that hobby?

Maybe someone can give an answer to that question. Someone who maybe plays a sport (or Go, I guess

) and has this stress to play competitively, why do you do it, or how do you keep doing it and handle it?
Because all I keep thinking, a small voice in my head: "if you stopped playing Go, instead of feeling stress right now, you'd be relaxed with a book in your hand. Idiot"

Knotwilg · Post by **Knotwilg** » Sun May 12, 2019 2:29 am

Ian Butler wrote: Maybe someone can give an answer to that question. Someone who maybe plays a sport (or Go, I guess ) and has this stress to play competitively, why do you do it, or how do you keep doing it and handle it?
Because all I keep thinking, a small voice in my head: "if you stopped playing Go, instead of feeling stress right now, you'd be relaxed with a book in your hand. Idiot"

You don't like to compete but you like to improve. To know if you have objectively improved, you compete.

jlt · Post by **jlt** » Sun May 12, 2019 2:38 am

The hard part is when the objective answer is "no".

Ian Butler · Post by **Ian Butler** » Sun May 12, 2019 3:45 am

jlt wrote:The hard part is when the objective answer is "no".

To which question?

EDIT: you probably mean knotwilg's.
That, in fact, is the hard part indeed

Bill Spight · Post by **Bill Spight** » Sun May 12, 2019 6:17 am

Ian Butler wrote:Now why do ideas like that pop up in my head? Because clearly I love Go, it's an amazing game.
The only reason I can think of is the stress it brings. These league games are on my mind often because, obviously, you want to do well.
But even in normal games, online or offline, you usually have some stress.
Most people are used to stress, but I think I'm a person that can't handle stress very well.

In fact, I think one of the main reasons I dislike any form of competition, is the stress that comes with it.

{snip}

Maybe someone can give an answer to that question. Someone who maybe plays a sport (or Go, I guess ) and has this stress to play competitively, why do you do it, or how do you keep doing it and handle it?
Because all I keep thinking, a small voice in my head: "if you stopped playing Go, instead of feeling stress right now, you'd be relaxed with a book in your hand. Idiot"

In general a certain amount of stress in a sport is good, because it can be a source of energy. People talk about getting into The Zone, where stress provides the energy and focus to meet the challenge. Tennis great Billie Jean King talks about raising the level of your game. One of the early researchers into stress (I forge his name) coined the term eustress for good stress, as opposed to distress for bad stress. Stress is more problematic for a sedentary sport like go, as you cannot dissipate it with physical action. On a scale of 1-10, for me a good stress level for go is 2, for instance. That means that I am up for the game, but not too stressed.

There is a wide variety of ways to handle stress and to destress. Probably both would be good for you. A general destress before a game of go might be a good idea, as well as after a game. During a game relaxing background music might help. Also, you can do isotonic physical exercises while seated, which may help. Some form of desensitization training would probably be good. That is something you would need to work out yourself, I expect.

One way to get started on that is to recall stressful moments either playing go or related to playing go and to rehearse mentally some of the less stressful moments until you can do so and remain relaxed. As for stress during a game, there is no point to getting too stressed. If that happens, take a break, even resign if that is necessary. There is no point in letting stress kill the game you love.

Bonne chance!

Ian Butler · Post by **Ian Butler** » Sun May 12, 2019 6:40 am

Thank you for the advice, Bill.
Go is a special case for me. I usually don't get stressed that often (or at least don't get symptoms of it), but for a Go game it's crazy.

And the problem, I think, is that it works negatively on my game. I just played another Yunguseng game, and for the first 25 moves, I already felt I had lost, mentally. Even before the game had started, I was already weary and unfocused.
During the game I found my focus again and played a decent middle game, but still it was unfortunate.

Even during other competitive things, I don't have it that bad. If I do a running competition, or another board game, or ..., I maybe get a little stress / excitement, but in Go it's very consuming.
An additional problem is that the Go stress really eats at my self-confidence. That is also what I very much lacked during the opening of the game I just played, and only partly found again during the game (and then lost again during the game near the endgame

)

Hmm, Go remains an odd journey for me. In a way, it always opens me up to my worst aspects, which is also why it is interesting.
Besides Go, I am usually very calm, I can relativise in many situations, I don't get worked up over things, don't cling to things, am pretty confident in what I do and all that jazz. But when I play Go, it's like I revert to a much lower form of myself, the scared, unconfident me.
For some reason, this game brings him out. And I don't know whether I should try to conquer, evade or embrace him

On the other hand, maybe this is what every Go player goes through at some level, but I just think about it more, or experience it more.
Like now, I think I'm in a group that's above my level in the Yunguseng. In theory (& practice), that's great, because I get many chances to play stronger players before I demote to a "lower" group. But still nobody likes losing so often, so you have conflicting feelings. And right after a loss, it's probably reasonable and logical to feel disappointment. It usually doesn't last very long, too.

So perhaps the problem is that I always put my disappointment on "paper", here on L19 instead of going to chill and "cool off".
Maybe I should try that instead, next time

Bill Spight · Post by **Bill Spight** » Sun May 12, 2019 7:06 am

Ian Butler wrote:Thank you for the advice, Bill.
Go is a special case for me. I usually don't get stressed that often (or at least don't get symptoms of it), but for a Go game it's crazy.

And the problem, I think, is that it works negatively on my game. I just played another Yunguseng game, and for the first 25 moves, I already felt I had lost, mentally. Even before the game had started, I was already weary and unfocused.
During the game I found my focus again and played a decent middle game, but still it was unfortunate.

Even during other competitive things, I don't have it that bad. If I do a running competition, or another board game, or ..., I maybe get a little stress / excitement, but in Go it's very consuming.

Hmmm. It sounds like a go specific desensitization program might be a good idea.

I was also wondering if doing problems was stressful for you. If so, and the stress is not too great, doing problems could be good stress training. If not, you might try imaginatively to add stress to doing problems, or adding stress by other means, such as giving yourself a time limit or playing loud music in the background.

Knotwilg · Post by **Knotwilg** » Sun May 12, 2019 10:29 am

"I just played another Yunguseng game, and for the first 25 moves, I already felt I had lost, mentally. Even before the game had started, I was already weary and unfocused."

I think we all have had situations where we didn't feel like playing, or met with a particularly obnoxious opponent, or felt the fear of losing and going down a rank. But to sit there and feel you have lost already, mentally, that's extreme.

You look too deeply into this game and even more deeply into your personality as a player. It's just a game and none of us are very special in, at or through Go. So we might as well stop worrying about it and start enjoying it.

Your personality doesn't depend on your results in Go or the way you approach it. The hardships of Go may be of a peculiar kind and teach us a few things about ourselves. But eventually it's just a game.

Life In 19x19

Ian Butler's Go Journal

Re: Ian Butler's Journal - Two players ignoring each other!

Re: Ian Butler's Journal - Two players ignoring each other!

Re: Ian Butler's Journal - Some struggling

Re: Ian Butler's Journal - Two players ignoring each other!

Re: Ian Butler's Journal - Some struggling

Re: Ian Butler's Journal - Some struggling

Re: Ian Butler's Journal - Some struggling

Re: Ian Butler's Journal - Some struggling

Re: Ian Butler's Journal - Some struggling

Re: Ian Butler's Journal - Some struggling

Re: Ian Butler's Journal - Some struggling

Re: Ian Butler's Journal - Some struggling

Re: Ian Butler's Journal - Some struggling

Re: Ian Butler's Journal - Some struggling

Re: Ian Butler's Journal - Some struggling