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115 - robinz v. 1986

https://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=3740

Page 14 of 31

Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986

Posted: Sat May 28, 2011 3:17 am
by robinz
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm121 Prisoner Count :w3:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . O . . . X O O O O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . O X X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . X X O . . X X X |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . O . . . . O 1 O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . . . . . X O X O . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , O . X . X X X O . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O O X X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . O X O X O . |
$$ | . O O . X . . . . . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | X X O X . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X X X O X O . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Well, I'm pretty sure this works, but I guess I'll find out one way or the other over the next few moves :D I can give variations if anyone requests, but there are quite a few of them, none very long, and all the ones I've looked at end happily for me. The basic theme is that, while my wall is now alarmingly short in liberties, both the white groups currently blocking it in are even shorter on them.

There could be some longer-term problems if white succeeds in keeping O15 alive, when my M17 group will struggle for life. But I'll cross that bridge when (or perhaps if) I come to it - I've been unable to find a better move than this one. I contemplated first playing the atari at O14, but didn't like the look of the following variation at all, so I didn't play it:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm121 Prisoner Count :w3:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . O . . . X O O O O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . O X X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . X X O 2 . X X X |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . O . . 5 1 O 3 O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . 4 6 . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . . . . . X O X O . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , O . X . X X X O . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O O X X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . O X O X O . |
$$ | . O O . X . . . . . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | X X O X . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X X X O X O . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986

Posted: Sun May 29, 2011 8:31 am
by 1986
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm122 Prisoner Count :w3:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . O . . . X O O O O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . 1 O X X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . X X O . . X X X |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . O . . . . O X O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . . . . . X O X O . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , O . X . X X X O . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O O X X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . O X O X O . |
$$ | . O O . X . . . . . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | X X O X . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X X X O X O . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


still taking things one step at a time
uh oh my corner is in trouble i need to hurry & get life
hmmmn

well this is sente so i still got a few moves to figure out what im going to do 

right now im clueless, not completely though :lol:

Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986

Posted: Sun May 29, 2011 10:05 am
by robinz
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm123 Prisoner Count :w3:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . O . . . X O O O O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X 1 O O X X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . X X O . . X X X |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . O . . . . O X O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . . . . . X O X O . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , O . X . X X X O . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O O X X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . O X O X O . |
$$ | . O O . X . . . . . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | X X O X . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X X X O X O . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]



Still the only option, I think. Not sure what white's going to do next - he's seemingly been changing his focus on almost every move! I'm more than a little worried now that N18 might die after white cuts - but I don't think it's quite game-ending if it does (although it'd make it extremely hard for me to win), and there's still plenty of fight to be had there. I'm going to fasten my seatbelt and see what happens :D

Posted: Sun May 29, 2011 4:31 pm
by EdLee
robinz,
robinz wrote:I'm more than a little worried now that N18 might die after white cuts
Could you show the variations?

Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986

Posted: Mon May 30, 2011 4:08 am
by robinz
@EdLee:

I'm worried about this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm124 Prisoner Count :w3:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 2 X X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . O . 3 1 X O O O O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X X O O X X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . X X O . . X X X |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . O . . . . O X O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . . . . . X O X O . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , O . X . X X X O . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O O X X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . O X O X O . |
$$ | . O O . X . . . . . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | X X O X . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X X X O X O . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


- I don't see how N18 can live here unless I can kill the corner first. I'm not saying that won't be possible - it's a capturing race that is frankly way beyond my ability to read at the moment. And I didn't feel I had much choice over my last move, so I didn't see the need to. But it's certainly possible that I could die here, hence my saying that I was worried :)

Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986

Posted: Mon May 30, 2011 6:37 am
by Mnemonic
observers
This is my reading:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm124 Prisoner Count :w3:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 2 X X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O # 8 O 5 3 1 X O O O O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . # 7 6 4 X X O O X X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . 9 O . . 0 X X O . . X X X |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . O . . . . O X O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . . . . . X O X O . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , O . X . X X X O . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O O X X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . O X O X O . |
$$ | . O O . X . . . . . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | X X O X . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X X X O X O . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

This is a forced sequence (as far as I can tell). Now we have black groups with 4 and 6 liberties and white groups with 4 and 5. As black I would want to capture both and win the game, but I don't know if that is possible. The :w24: :w26: :w28: group is interlocked with the black 4-liberty group and white has sente. If there aren’t any tricky tesujis black will lose the :bs: stones, but they were dead anyway. My point is this: white need to spend a move to save his cutting stones so black can extend to Q18 and it now stands 7 liberties to 4. Black has nothing to be afraid of.

Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986

Posted: Mon May 30, 2011 7:06 am
by ez4u
Mnemonic wrote:observers
This is my reading:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm124 Prisoner Count :w3:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 2 X X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O # 8 O 5 3 1 X O O O O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . # 7 6 4 X X O O X X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . 9 O . . 0 X X O . . X X X |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . O . . . . O X O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . . . . . X O X O . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , O . X . X X X O . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O O X X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . O X O X O . |
$$ | . O O . X . . . . . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | X X O X . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X X X O X O . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

This is a forced sequence (as far as I can tell). Now we have black groups with 4 and 6 liberties and white groups with 4 and 5. As black I would want to capture both and win the game, but I don't know if that is possible. The :w24: :w26: :w28: group is interlocked with the black 4-liberty group and white has sente. If there aren’t any tricky tesujis black will lose the :bs: stones, but they were dead anyway. My point is this: white need to spend a move to save his cutting stones so black can extend to Q18 and it now stands 7 liberties to 4. Black has nothing to be afraid of.


Consider if White plays 24 at 33. It threatens to capture two Black stones in a ladder. Black has to avoid not only the ladder but even an atari on the two stones because the situation to the right is fragile. It looks to me as though Black has some difficulty here.

Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986

Posted: Mon May 30, 2011 7:12 am
by perceval
another posibility ? here B does not save his 2 marked stones but does not risk as much, forcing moves at :b29: :b31: allow to win the race as :b35: now threaten to make life
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm124 :w32: connects
$$+---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 7 6 8 2 X X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O # . O 4 3 1 X O O O O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . # . . 5 X X O O X X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . 0 X X O . . X X X |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . O . . . . O X O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . . . . . X O X O . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , O . X . X X X O . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O O X X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . O X O X O . |
$$ | . O O . X . . . . . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | X X O X . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X X X O X O . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm134 Prisoner Count :w3:
$$+---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . 2 4 5 6 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X X X X X X 1 7 . . |
$$ | . . . . O # . O O O O X O O O O O O 9 |
$$ | . . . O . # . . O X X O O X X X X O 8|
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . X X X O . . X X X |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . O . . . . O X O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . . . . . X O X O . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , O . X . X X X O . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O O X X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . O X O X O . |
$$ | . O O . X . . . . . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | X X O X . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X X X O X O . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

if from below:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm124 :w32: connects
$$+---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 5 9 7 2 X X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O # . O 4 3 1 X O O O O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . # . 0 6 X X O O X X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . X X O . . X X X |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . O . . . . O X O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . . . . . X O X O . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , O . X . X X X O . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O O X X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . O X O X O . |
$$ | . O O . X . . . . . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | X X O X . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X X X O X O . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

EDIT:: posted before reading ezu posts .. seems its moot with a different :w24:

Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986

Posted: Mon May 30, 2011 7:13 am
by 1986
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm124 Prisoner Count :w3:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . O . . . X O O O O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X X O O X X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . X X O . . X X X |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . O . . 1 . O X O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . . . . . X O X O . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , O . X . X X X O . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O O X X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . O X O X O . |
$$ | . O O . X . . . . . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | X X O X . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X X X O X O . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


My aim with this move is to play l15 next to save my corner group by capturing these cutting stones

i dont know where he is going to play next but im guessing something to save his small k16 group from getting cut up

Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986

Posted: Mon May 30, 2011 7:35 am
by Mnemonic
@ez4u
I agree that the position does not look too well for black, but my point was that the cut at L17 does not seem too bad. If black plays L15 now he will have no worries on the upper side and may even be able to save his two stones on the left if white cut's. Q13 does look evil though.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm124 How would you respond to :w26: ? The best I got is this ko :sad:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . O . . . X O O O O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X X O O X X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . 2 X X O 4 7 X X X |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . O . . 1 5 O C O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . 3 6 . . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . . . . . X O X O . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , O . X . X X X O . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O O X X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . O X O X O . |
$$ | . O O . X . . . . . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | X X O X . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X X X O X O . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986

Posted: Mon May 30, 2011 2:36 pm
by robinz
Apologies to 1986, and all - I think my next move is going to take a while.

Damn, I can't believe I missed that. Clearly, it threatens my two important cutting stones at M15/N15, but it also seems to make the block at Q13 effective. I think my only choices are either to sacrifice M15/N15 (which will leave me substantially behind, especially as N18 won't then be obviously alive), or save them and have some sort of ko fight over the fate of my wall at R15. It doesn't look like a particularly favourable ko for me - and I also think I have a few ways to set one up - but it may be my only chance to win. Although I still think white has more ko threats than me :sad: It doesn't look good, but I intend to do some serious reading here to see if I can salvage anything.

Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986

Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 11:59 am
by robinz
OK, turns out I don't need as long as I thought - a night to sleep on the position (plus a bit more reading to check my conclusions) and I'm ready to move on :)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm125 Prisoner Count :w3:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . O . . . X O O O O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X X O O X X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . X X O . . X X X |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . O . . O . O X O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . . . . . X O X O . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , O . X . X X X O . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O O X X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . O X O X O . |
$$ | . O O . X . . . . . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | X X O X . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X X X O X O . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Well, yeah, this is a fairly huge concession. But I simply can't let that wall die and have any hope of winning, and nor does the ko (however I choose to set it up) look remotely winnable. So I'm sacrificing the two stones - next I will live with my top group by playing J17, which could even be sort-of sente (depending on how black responds). I'm pretty sure I'm losing by quite a bit now (I'm kind of taking it for granted than white will play L15 now, but I guess I've been wrong about 1986's intentions often enough in this game), but I think I can keep it within 15-20 points, which isn't yet resignable at our level. I am surely going to have to reduce white's territory like a man possessed to have a chance, though :lol:

Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986

Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 9:37 pm
by 1986
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm126 Prisoner Count :w3:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . O . . . X O O O O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X X O O X X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . 1 X X O . . X X X |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . O . . O . O X O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . . . . . X O X O . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , O . X . X X X O . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O O X X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . O X O X O . |
$$ | . O O . X . . . . . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | X X O X . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X X X O X O . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


well, this is pretty much the only move now
the question is how is he going to Handel the few stones to the left ...

Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986

Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:36 am
by robinz
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm127 Prisoner Count :w3:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . O 1 . . X O O O O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X X O O X X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . O X X O . . X X X |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . O . . O . O X O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . . . . . X O X O . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , O . X . X X X O . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O O X X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . O X O X O . |
$$ | . O O . X . . . . . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | X X O X . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X X X O X O . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


As I said, let's live with the top group. (I won't rule out the possibility that I can live even if I tenuki, but I'm very unsure of this and don't want to risk it. At the very least, white would get some rather large sente moves.) I don't think this is quite sente, but it does eye up the possiblity of doing some damage to his 1 space jump, or perhaps even connecting underneath to F17. I'm going to have to come out all guns blazing now to win this game - expect me to routinely ignore "sente" white moves (unless what they threaten is enormous) as I embark on a rampage of mutual damage in an attempt to claw back points and make this game complicated :lol:

Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986

Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 5:26 pm
by 1986
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm128 Prisoner Count :w3:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 1 . . . . X X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . O X . . X O O O O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X X O O X X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . O X X O . . X X X |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . O . . O . O X O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . . . . . X O X O . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , O . X . X X X O . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O O X X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . O X O X O . |
$$ | . O O . X . . . . . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | X X O X . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X X X O X O . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


i been doing alot of studying on my game lately 
playing a maklovitch is a good way to improve

this moves is basic i was going to play a hane either the top or the bottom side but i dont want to help him strenthen his side with a 
response that could be sente for him again!

after reading how to not play go i can see how i had wishful thinking
in my own game :) 
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