Page 14 of 17

Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:19 pm
by Kirby
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm121 Prisoner Count: B-1 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O X O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X X X X O . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . O . X X O X X O O X X . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . O O X X O O X O . X X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X X O O X X X O O . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O X X X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . O X . . O . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . O X . , . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X X . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . O X . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . O . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . 9 . . . O X . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . O . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , O X . X . X X O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O O X O . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X X X O . O . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I seriously don't know, Loons.

Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:20 pm
by Aphelion
Here's my move after looking at it for a few minutes, not sure if it works:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm121 Prisoner Count: B-1 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O X O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X X X X O . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . O . X X O X X O O X X . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . O O X X O O X O . X X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X X O O X X X O O . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O X X X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . O X . . O . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . O X . , . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X X . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . O X . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . O . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O X . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 2 . O . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X . X 3 . . , O X . X . X X O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . O . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:43 pm
by hyperpape
I just looked at this via instinct, without reading, but it's hard for me to imagine when you wouldn't want to have traded G3 for G2 before playing H6.

Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 12:33 am
by tj86430
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm121 Prisoner Count: B-1 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O X O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X X X X O . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . O . X X O X X O O X X . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . O O X X O O X O . X X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X X O O X X X O O . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O X X X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . O X . . O . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . O X . , . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X X . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . O X . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . O . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O . . . O X . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . O . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , O X . X . X X O X |
$$ | . . . . . . 0 O O O X O . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X X X O . O . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


@loons:
I had anticipated a complex fight in the lower left corner, but I think whites last move was a mistake and that I still have a small chance of killing him.

Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 2:56 am
by Kirby
Click Here To Hide Diagram Code
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm131 Prisoner Count: B-1 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O X O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X X X X O . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . O . X X O X X O O X X . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . O O X X O O X O . X X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X X O O X X X O O . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O X X X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . O X . . O . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . O X . , . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X X . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . O X . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . O . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O 1 . . O X . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . O . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , O X . X . X X O X |
$$ | . . . . . . X O O O X O . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X X X O . O . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 4:18 am
by hyperpape
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm131 Prisoner Count: B-1 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O X O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X X X X O . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . O . X X O X X O O X X . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . O O X X O O X O . X X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X X O O X X X O O . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O X X X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . O X . . O . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . O X . , . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X X . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . O X . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . O . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O 1 . . O X . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . O . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X . X . 2 . , O X . X . X X O X |
$$ | . . . . . . X O O O X O . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X X X O . O . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


That doesn't look like two eyes.

Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 6:57 am
by Kirby
So I messed up. Yeah, I messed up on the board. He might kill me, now. But more than that, I messed up with my attitude.

When asked by Loons what I foresaw of a situation, I replied, "I seriously don't know, Loons.". What kind of an answer is that? And a couple of moves earlier, my comment for the game was, "I don't know what will happen.". What in the world is that?

I've come to respect Magicwand's intuition in games. I want to have that for myself, too. But I think I've fallen into substituting this for an overall lack of deep thinking. And that's where I really messed up.

People play go in a lot of different ways. They think of it from a lot of different viewpoints. But to me, go is a thinking game. You try to come up with strategies and tactics that will lead to your victory in the end. How can I ever say that I've done this if I "don't know what will happen", or if I don't even make an attempt?

As Magicwand has said before, go is a complicated game, and it's hard to predict what will happen. But if I am ever to feel I've won a game based on my own thinking... Well, then I've got to think and make an attempt to foresee the future. That's the only real way, I think.

So, yes, I've made mistakes on the board here. But I think that the root is in my attitude.

I think that the only way I can win the game is if I live, and I think he needs to make a mistake for this to happen.

So I have one thing that I will try before resigning, and that is the following (if he plays this way):

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-1 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O X O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X X X X O . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . O . X X O X X O O X X . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . O O X X O O X O . X X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X X O O X X X O O . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O X X X 5 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O X . 4 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . O X . . O . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . O X . , . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O 2 X X . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X 3 6 . . . . O X . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . O . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O O . . O X . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . O . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X . X . 1 . , O X . X . X X O X |
$$ | . . . . . . X O O O X O . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X X X O . O . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I don't think that this will work, because there are several options for black to be safe. But this is the strategy that I have read for this game. This is what I am going to try. And if it doesn't work... Well, then I'll resign.

I do not wish to play anymore without thinking, or without a plan. That was my real mistake here.

Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 7:59 am
by tj86430
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm131 Prisoner Count: B-1 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O X O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X X X X O . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . O . X X O X X O O X X . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . O O X X O O X O . X X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X X O O X X X O O . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O X X X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . O X . . O . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . O X . , . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X X . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . O X . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . O . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O O . . O X . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . O . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X . X . 2 . , O X . X . X X O X |
$$ | . . . . . . X O O O X O . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X X X O . O . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 8:10 am
by Kirby
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm131 Prisoner Count: B-1 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O X O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X X X X O . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . O . X X O X X O O X X . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . O O X X O O X O . X X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X X O O X X X O O . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O X X X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . O X . . O . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . O X . , . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O 3 X X . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . O X . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . O . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O O . . O X . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . O . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . , O X . X . X X O X |
$$ | . . . . . . X O O O X O . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X X X O . O . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 4:49 am
by tj86430
I will think about this for a bit.

In the mean time: Merry Christmas!

Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 7:49 pm
by Kirby
Sure. Merry Christmas!

Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 11:09 pm
by tj86430
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm131 Prisoner Count: B-1 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O X O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X X X X O . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . O . X X O X X O O X X . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . O O X X O O X O . X X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X X O O X X X O O . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O X X X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O X . 4 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . O X . . O . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . O X . , . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X X . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . O X . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . O . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O O . . O X . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . O . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . , O X . X . X X O X |
$$ | . . . . . . X O O O X O . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X X X O . O . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I had read long variations, but lost them due to a power outage. Anyhow, it seems that if I block, there is a risk he can connect his cutting stones to (temporary) freedom, after which my split group will become under serious attack. This way he can push through, and I may have to even sacrifice my three stones on the left, but if that happens I will be able to kill his centre group and win anyway. Lets see which path he chooses.

If I have misread, this is probably the game-losing move.

Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 11:26 pm
by Kirby
Click Here To Hide Diagram Code
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm131 Prisoner Count: B-1 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O X O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X X X X O . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . O . X X O X X O O X X . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . O O X X O O X O . X X . X . |
$$ | . . O X X X O O X X X O O . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O X X X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . O X . . O . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . O X . , . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X X . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . 5 . . O X . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . O . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O O . . O X . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . O . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . , O X . X . X X O X |
$$ | . . . . . . X O O O X O . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X X X O . O . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 11:26 am
by tj86430
Kirby, I'm extremely sorry for the delay. Unfortunately I'm now quite busy with something. I will, however, try to make my move during the coming weekend, at the latest.

Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 4:37 pm
by Kirby
Take your time...

I'm not playing that well, anyway :-)