Page 15 of 17

Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:15 am
by topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm161 Prisoners: :w1: :b1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . . . X O X O O . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X O X . . X . O X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X . X . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O O . . X . . O . X O O . |
$$ | O O . O . . . . O . O . . . O X X X . |
$$ | X . O . . . . X X O . . O X O . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . X X X O . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O X . X O X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O O X . O X X O O X , X X . |
$$ | X . X O X O O X . X O . . . X . X O . |
$$ | O X X X X X X X . X . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . O . . . O O O . O O . |
$$ | O X X X . O X . . . . . . . . . X X X |
$$ | . O O . . . . O . . . . . 8 6 X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O 1 . X O 9 O |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . X O . X 7 5 X O . . |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . O X O 4 X O . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 X 2 O . O . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Turns out I have one better than I thought here. This throw-in is normal for killing the J group, making miai of T3 and T5, but here I feared it gave magicwand an unnecessary ko in exchange for losing one more liberty, and I hate ko fights with this guy. However, it turns out that it just gives me a bunch of extra liberties as White not only has to capture now, but also to respond inside on the next move as well:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm171 Prisoners: :w1: :b1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . . . X O X O O . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X O X . . X . O X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X . X . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O O . . X . . O . X O O . |
$$ | O O . O . . . . O . O . . . O X X X . |
$$ | X . O . . . . X X O . . O X O . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . X X X O . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O X . X O X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O O X . O X X O O X , X X . |
$$ | X . X O X O O X . X O . . . X . X O . |
$$ | O X X X X X X X . X . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . O . . . O O O . O O . |
$$ | O X X X . O X . . . . . . . . . X X X |
$$ | . O O . . . . O . . . . . O O X X O 1 |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O X . X O C O |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . X O . X X X X O W a |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . O X O O X O . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O . O . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If Black plays "a" next there's no ko and White has to connect, so White's most likely to play "a" himself and leave the ko, but at the same time that reduces it to a 3 space eye rather than a 5 space bulky five, which gains a massive amount in the liberty fight. I'm assuming we'll end up with something like this:


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm171 Prisoners: :w1: :b1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . . . X O X O O . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X O X . . X . O X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X . X . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O O . . X . . O . X O O . |
$$ | O O . O . . . . O . O . . . O X X X . |
$$ | X . O . . . . X X O . . O X O . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . X X X O . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O X . X O X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O O X . O X X O O X , X X . |
$$ | X . X O X O O X . X O . . . X . X O . |
$$ | O X X X X X X X . X . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . O . . . O O O . O O . |
$$ | O X X X . O X . . . . . . . . . X X X |
$$ | . O O . . . . O . . . . . O O X X O 1 |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X O O a O X . X O . O |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . X O . X X X X O O 2 |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . O X . . X O . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X 5 4 C O . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


With :b73: at the circled point. It also makes me much happier about playing things like "a" for sente points without worrying about liberties, but to be honest, if I have sente, I'm going back to the top left.

Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:47 am
by Magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm161 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . . . X O X O O . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X O X . . X . O X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X . X . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O O . . X . . O . X O O . |
$$ | O O . O . . . . O . O . . . O X X X . |
$$ | X . O . . . . X X O . . O X O . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . X X X O . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O X . X O X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O O X . O X X O O X , X X . |
$$ | X . X O X O O X . X O . . . X . X O . |
$$ | O X X X X X X X . X . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . O . . . O O O . O O . |
$$ | O X X X . O X . . . . . . . . . X X X |
$$ | . O O . . . . O . . . . . 8 6 X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O 1 . X O 9 O |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . X O . X 7 5 X O 0 . |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . O X O 4 X O . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 X 2 O . O . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

he should have played that long time ago :) anyway..let's finish this first...

Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:05 am
by topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm171 Prisoners: :b2: :w1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . . . X O X O O . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X O X . . X . O X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X . X . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O O . . X . . O . X O O . |
$$ | O O . O . . . . O . O . . . O X X X . |
$$ | X . O . . . . X X O . . O X O . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . X X X O . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O X . X O X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O O X . O X X O O X , X X . |
$$ | X . X O X O O X . X O . . . X . X O . |
$$ | O X X X X X X X . X . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . O . . . O O O . O O . |
$$ | O X X X . O X . . . . . . . . . X X X |
$$ | . O O . . . . O . . . . . O O X X O 1 |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O X . X O C O |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . X O . X X X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . O X O O X O . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O . O . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:58 am
by Magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm171 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . . . X O X O O . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X O X . . X . O X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X . X . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O O . . X . . O . X O O . |
$$ | O O . O . . . . O . O . . . O X X X . |
$$ | X . O . . . . X X O . . O X O . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . X X X O . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O X . X O X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O O X . O X X O O X , X X . |
$$ | X . X O X O O X . X O . . . X . X O . |
$$ | O X X X X X X X . X . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . O . . . O O O . O O . |
$$ | O X X X . O X . . . . . . . . . X X X |
$$ | . O O . . . . O . . . . . O O X X O 1 |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O X . X O C O |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . X O 2 X X X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . O X O O X O . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O . O . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:12 pm
by topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm171 Prisoners: :w5: :b2:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . . . X O X O O . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X O X . . X . O X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X . X . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O O . . X . . O . X O O . |
$$ | O O . O . . . . O . O . . . O X X X . |
$$ | X . O . . . . X X O . . O X O . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . X X X O . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O X . X O X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O O X . O X X O O X , X X . |
$$ | X . X O X O O X . X O . . . X . X O . |
$$ | O X X X X X X X . X . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . O . . . O O O . O O . |
$$ | O X X X . O X . . . . . . . . . X X X |
$$ | . O O . . . . O . . . . . O O X X O 1 |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O X . X O 4 O |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . X O 2 X X X X O O 3 |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . O X O O X O . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O 5 O . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If you agree :)

Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:02 pm
by Magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm171 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . . . X O X O O . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X O X . . X . O X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X . X . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O O . . X . . O . X O O . |
$$ | O O . O . . . . O . O . . . O X X X . |
$$ | X . O . . . . X X O . . O X O . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . X X X O . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O X . X O X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O O X . O X X O O X , X X . |
$$ | X . X O X O O X . X O . . . X . X O . |
$$ | O X X X X X X X . X . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . O . . . O O O . O O . |
$$ | O X X X . O X . . . . . . . . 8 X X X |
$$ | . O O . . . . O . . . . . O O X X O 1 |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O X . X O 4 O |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . X O 2 X X X X O O 3 |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . O X . . X O . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X 7 6 5 O . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:06 pm
by topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm171 Prisoners: :w6: :b3:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . . . X O X O O . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X O X . . X . O X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X . X . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O O . . X . . O . X O O . |
$$ | O O . O . . . . O . O . . . O X X X . |
$$ | X . O . . . . X X O . . O X O . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . X X X O . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O X . X O X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O O X . O X X O O X , X X . |
$$ | X . X O X O O X . X O . . . X . X O . |
$$ | O X X X X X X X . X . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . O . . . O O O . O O . |
$$ | O X X X . O X . . . . . . . . O X X X |
$$ | . O O . . . . O . . . . . O O X X O X |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O X . X O O O |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . X O O X X X X O O X |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . O X . . X O . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X C 9 O . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So, I have to win this once, he has to win it 5 times. That doesn't mean it's a complete picnic for me. I need to make sure we don't end up in the situation where his ko threats are gaining him points for each threat and mine aren't, else the game could still be very close.

I should probably have just played E17 there - that takes away a good couple of threats from him, and gives me a couple of huge threats. Oh well ...

Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:22 pm
by Magicwand
M19

Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:54 pm
by topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm181 Prisoners: :w6: :b3:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 W . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . . . X O X O O . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X O X . . X . O X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X . X . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O O . . X . . O . X O O . |
$$ | O O . O . . . . O . O . . . O X X X . |
$$ | X . O . . . . X X O . . O X O . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . X X X O . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O X . X O X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O O X . O X X O O X , X X . |
$$ | X . X O X O O X . X O . . . X . X O . |
$$ | O X X X X X X X . X . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . O . . . O O O . O O . |
$$ | O X X X . O X . . . . . . . . O X X X |
$$ | . O O . . . . O . . . . . O O X X O X |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O X . X O O O |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . X O O X X X X O O X |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . O X . . X O . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . X O . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:15 pm
by Magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm181 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 W . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . . . X O X O O . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X O X . . X . O X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X . X . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O O . . X . . O . X O O . |
$$ | O O . O . . . . O . O . . . O X X X . |
$$ | X . O . . . . X X O . . O X O . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . X X X O . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O X . X O X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O O X . O X X O O X , X X . |
$$ | X . X O X O O X . X O . . . X . X O . |
$$ | O X X X X X X X . X . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . O . . . O O O . O O . |
$$ | O X X X . O X . . . . . . . . O X X X |
$$ | . O O . . . . O . . . . . O O X X O X |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O X . X O O O |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . X O O X X X X O O X |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . O X . . X O . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X 2 C O . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:30 pm
by topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm181 Prisoners: :w6: :b3:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 W . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . . . X O X O O . O . |
$$ | . . O . 3 X O X . . X . O X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X . X . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O O . . X . . O . X O O . |
$$ | O O . O . . . . O . O . . . O X X X . |
$$ | X . O . . . . X X O . . O X O . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . X X X O . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O X . X O X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O O X . O X X O O X , X X . |
$$ | X . X O X O O X . X O . . . X . X O . |
$$ | O X X X X X X X . X . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . O . . . O O O . O O . |
$$ | O X X X . O X . . . . . . . . O X X X |
$$ | . O O . . . . O . . . . . O O X X O X |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O X . X O O O |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . X O O X X X X O O X |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . O X . . X O . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X 2 C O . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 7:18 pm
by Magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm181 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 W . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . . . X O X O O . O . |
$$ | . . O . 3 X O X . . X . O X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X . X . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O O . . X . . O . X O O . |
$$ | O O . O . . . . O . O . . . O X X X . |
$$ | X . O . . . . X X O . . O X O . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . X X X O . 4 . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O X . X O X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O O X . O X X O O X , X X . |
$$ | X . X O X O O X . X O . . . X . X O . |
$$ | O X X X X X X X . X . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . O . . . O O O . O O . |
$$ | O X X X . O X . . . . . . . . O X X X |
$$ | . O O . . . . O . . . . . O O X X O X |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O X . X O O O |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . X O O X X X X O O X |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . O X . . X O . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X 2 C O . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 7:19 pm
by topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm181 Prisoners: :w7: :b3:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . . . . X O X O O . O . |
$$ | . . O . 3 X O X . . X . O X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X . X . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O O . . X . . O . X O O . |
$$ | O O . O . . . . O . O . . . O X X X . |
$$ | X . O . . . . X X O . . O X O . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . X X X O . 4 . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O X . X O X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O O X . O X X O O X , X X . |
$$ | X . X O X O O X . X O . . . X . X O . |
$$ | O X X X X X X X . X . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . O . . . O O O . O O . |
$$ | O X X X . O X . . . . . . . . O X X X |
$$ | . O O . . . . O . . . . . O O X X O X |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O X . X O O O |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . X O O X X X X O O X |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . O X . . X O . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X C 5 O . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)

Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:04 am
by Magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm181 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X 6 . . . X O X O O . O . |
$$ | . . O . 3 X O X . . X . O X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X . X . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O O . . X . . O . X O O . |
$$ | O O . O . . . . O . O . . . O X X X . |
$$ | X . O . . . . X X O . . O X O . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . X X X O . 4 . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O X . X O X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O O X . O X X O O X , X X . |
$$ | X . X O X O O X . X O . . . X . X O . |
$$ | O X X X X X X X . X . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . O . . . O O O . O O . |
$$ | O X X X . O X . . . . . . . . O X X X |
$$ | . O O . . . . O . . . . . O O X X O X |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O X . X O O O |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . X O O X X X X O O X |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . O X . . X O . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X C 5 O . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)

Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 7:03 am
by topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm181 Prisoners: :w7: :b4:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X 6 7 . . X O X O O . O . |
$$ | . . O . 3 X O X . . X . O X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O X . X . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O O . . X . . O . X O O . |
$$ | O O . O . . . . O . O 9 . . O X X X . |
$$ | X . O . . . . X X O . . O X O . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . X X X O . 4 . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O X . X O X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O O X . O X X O O X , X X . |
$$ | X . X O X O O X . X O . . . X . X O . |
$$ | O X X X X X X X . X . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . O . . . O O O . O O . |
$$ | O X X X . O X . . . . . . . . O X X X |
$$ | . O O . . . . O . . . . . O O X X O X |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X O O . O X . X O O O |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . X O O X X X X O O X |
$$ | . . . . X X O . . . . O X . . X O . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X 8 C O . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]