Page 15 of 20

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:08 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
I approve of Aphelion's trigger. In other words, if Daniel approves of W46, we play B47 as indicated, and Phelan it is your play again.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:29 am
by daniel_the_smith
Sorry guys, I was thinking about this one.

I guess I'll approve it...

I'm not really a fan of this move but it's hard to find anything better. And I guess I should only fix large mistakes anyway, and this isn't a large one, if a mistake at all...

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:31 pm
by Phelan
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm46 Prisoners: :white: 0, :black: 0 Corrections: B=6 - 1 , W=3 - 3
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . X O W . . . . . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . X . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Not sure what to say here. "This is joseki."?

It's definitely not as good as the sequence I mentioned before.
Black will then play either a or b.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm46 Joseki
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . b . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . X O W . . . . . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . X . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . a . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:50 pm
by daniel_the_smith
*nods*

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 4:07 pm
by Aphelion
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm47 Prisoners: :white: 0, :black: 0 Corrections: B=6 - 2 , W=4 - 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . X . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . B . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Here's the plan. :b3: takes away a good chunk of the side and brings :bc: to life.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . X . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . 1 . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 2 . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 . O . O . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . B . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Edit: Fixed corrections, White gets incremented to 4.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 4:36 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
I approve.

It's good to be thinking along the same lines as my teammate again.

In addfition to his diagram, we have this posibility:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 3 2 4 . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . X . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . 1 . . 5 . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Or this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . X . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . 1 . . 3 . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


BTW, if white ever tries to strengthen his K-file stones to go after our G16 stone, our natural defence includes an attack on the upper right. After black 4, white must defend his corner or 'a' kills:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 3 2 O O a . . . X . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . 1 X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . # . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . B . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So G16 is stronger than it appears.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 4:49 pm
by Phelan
Thoughts:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm47 Prisoners: :white: 0, :black: 0 Corrections: B=6 - 2 , W=4 - 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . X . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . B . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . W . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Ok, this one is not joseki (as far as I know)...but the corner seems small and our group can run easily, so I'll try taking the rest of the side we can still get.

...was what I was going to post. I just saw Black E14, though. I'll think it over and post a move tomorrow.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 12:09 pm
by Phelan
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm48 Prisoners: :white: 0, :black: 0 Corrections: B=6 - 3 , W=4 - 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . W . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . X . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I first considered B13, as you can see in the post above. But E14 screws that up:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm49 Black E14
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . X . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . X . 3 4 . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 1 5 . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . W . 6 . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm49 Black E14
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . X . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . X . . 4 3 . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . 5 1 2 . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . W . . . 6 . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



So I started considering alternatives that also keep the side for us:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm49 Alternative 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . X . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . W . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Not good enough.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm49 Alternative 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . X . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . X . 1 2 . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . W 3 . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Also not good enough.

So, I see no effective way to keep the side without fighting it out with Black, and I don't think it the fight is worth it, after that exchange in the top right.

That means we have to either live locally, or jump out, before trying to limit Black's potential in the left.

So I'll change the focus to the other side:


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm49 Other side 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . X . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . X . . 2 1 . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . 6 5 3 W . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Also not good.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm49 Other side 2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . X . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . W . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This one seems too mild.

Maybe living locally?


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm49 Alternative 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . W . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . X . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . a 1 . O . O . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Hmm, forcing black to play 49 or a seems interesting, since we can put some pressure on their group while building a wall to the left. I think I'll go with that.
Daniel, feel free to choose a fighting alternative if you see a good line.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 9:48 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
To observers:
I don't think that Daniel will let this go. If he does, they lose sente if they play 'a', or give us easy life if we play it.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | c . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 2 1 a . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . X . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . d . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |[/go]

They could play 'b', with an eye toward the ko at 'c', but we have lots of threats over in the top right.

So I think they need something like 'd'.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:56 pm
by daniel_the_smith
Sorry, still thinking about this.
I don't like this move, it's not in an important area of the board. I'd like to tenuki, but can I?

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:27 am
by daniel_the_smith
OK, approved. Sorry it took so long.
I think I would play E14 but I don't think it's worth a correction.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:13 am
by Aphelion
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm49 Prisoners: 0, 0 Corrections: B=6 - 3 , W=4 - 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | B O . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . X . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]Bcm1, Cut is lost, group is still thin:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | a O . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . X . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . X . . c . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . b . O . O . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

a through c are the points I considered here. C works immediately, but the resulting sequence allows White to sacrifice for further thickness facing the left:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . X O O 5 7 . . . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X 3 O 6 X . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . X . 2 1 8 . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . 0 . 4 . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


'b' prioritizes the side, but gives up shape and points in the corner. Its also ambiguous how much I can still exploit the cut at 'c' later on:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Cut is gone, group is still thin
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | 2 X O O . . . . . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . 4 X , O . X . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . O . O . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 . O . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 White maybe can just try to live locally now
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | 2 X O O . . 8 . . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . 3 X . O 6 X . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . X . . 5 7 . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . O . O . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 . O . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If I just play the normal move at a, I still have miai of b and c. This time if he protects the side, I can kill him without giving any thickness in return:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Marked points are miai
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 1 O C . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . X O O C . . . . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X 5 O . X . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . X . 4 3 7 . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . 6 . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . O . O . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 5:28 pm
by Phelan
I keep missing all of Aphelion's replies to my moves... Not a good sign.
What's more, now that I see it in play, I don't see a good reply to it. Nothing that will let us live locally, at least. That means that my move could have been better.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm49 My probable reply
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | B O . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . X . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I say probable because I still want to think if I can find something better.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 9:23 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
I approve.

There is nothing like making a move that threatens to make eye space for us and destroy their eye space at the same time.
I like his plans for C12. If he plays it and I approve, then one more move will be 5 moves and we get another correction. Then I can go on a correction spree in the center / lower left. :mrgreen:

As a matter of strategy, it makes sense to make corrections a bunch at a time, then lie fallow while the next correction accumulates.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 5:30 pm
by Phelan
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm49 Prisoners: 0, 0 Corrections: B=6 - 4 , W=4 - 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X O . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . X . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Don't see any way to avoid playing here.