Big Brother Malkovich #5

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TIM82
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5

Post by TIM82 »

Approved. :tmbup:

I sure have no idea how this will end up, but at least it should be fun. I like little brothes spirit :)

Some unrefined ideas, which make this seem feasible for us:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm44 :b15: :w12:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 1 2 . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . 5 4 X 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm44 :b15: :w12: Marked stone = 54
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 0 X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . 9 8 5 7 O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 1 2 6 . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . X 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . W . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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skydyr
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5

Post by skydyr »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm38 :b15: :w12:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 7 8 . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This seems to be the only move.
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Joaz Banbeck
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

Agreed: it is the only move. I approve.
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5

Post by Splatted »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm38 :b15: :w12:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . X 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I've done lots of reading, but I'm not sure how to condense that in to a post since I really don't know which lines to expect. Black's strongest resistance seems to be to connect with F11, but I'm not sure how much damage that actually does to my centre group. It obviously damages the G11 stone, but it doesn't threaten to seal me in. Assuming I do reply to it though, here's one possible continuation:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 11 at marked white stone
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . a X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . 3 . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . 8 2 O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X 7 . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . 9 6 X 1 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 0 . W 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I can sacrifice the two stones and build outside influence, which I'm not sure is worth it, but it does seem to activate the cut at a.


Edit:

I've decided I do like this because black's C14 area is still reduceable (and if white gets to play there black looks overconcentrated) and there is some significant aji in his position, so I don't think black gets as much from this trade as it seems he does.
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5

Post by TIM82 »

Approved. Let the fun begin :rambo:

although at glance I'm not a fan of Splatted's sacrifice plan. Perhaps 3 at 11 in his diagram? But there are so many options open right now - lets see where this goes.
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skydyr
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5

Post by skydyr »

Still thinking...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc :b15: :w12:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 3 X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . 2 4 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X 5 . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . X W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . 5 6 . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . 3 1 O 7 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X 2 . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . X W . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 9 8 . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 7 6 . 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X 4 . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . 5 2 3 O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X 1 . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . X W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 7 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X 4 6 . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . 8 2 3 O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X 1 9 . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . X W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . 4 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X 1 . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . X W . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . 4 . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . X W 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O 5 . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Taking this side looks interesting except that it seems to damage the H15 group...

More later. Short on time so no comments, just sequences, really.
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Joaz Banbeck
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

For observers:
skydyr wrote:Still thinking...

I hope his next post will indicate that he is thinking about extending from the D9 stone. This is a crosscut, after all, and the proverb tells us that one should extend from a crosscut. E10 has room to run, and some white attempts to chase it turn out to be aji keshi. But D9 can be laddered if it does not get an extension.
I don't know what is best here, but both extensions should be on the short list.

Younger brother seems to be favoring the C12/E12 group a lot. They may be expendable. They are good for territory only if we play D14 in gote. But establishing a group around D7 may be worth more.

EDIT: Actually, there are 3 possible extension from D9. C8 feels bad intuitively, but it might work.
Help make L19 more organized. Make an index: https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5207
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5

Post by Splatted »

bump.
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skydyr
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5

Post by skydyr »

Sorry, I've been busy and haven't decided as yet. I'm still thinking about this, though.
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5

Post by Splatted »

That's fine. I just thought you might have forgotten it was your turn. :)
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Joaz Banbeck
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

skydyr wrote:...I'm still thinking about this, though.

:clap:
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skydyr
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5

Post by skydyr »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm38 :b15: :w12:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X 0 . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . X 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . 5 . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O 4 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X 1 3 . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . X W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

So many choices, and I can't see anything spectacular, so I'm going to sacrifice on the left to keep up the attack. It should give me some aji for the endgame on the left as well.
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5

Post by Splatted »

Now I can't rember all the reading I did. :lol:
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Joaz Banbeck
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

skydyr wrote:...I can't see anything spectacular, so I'm going to sacrifice on the left...


If this logic is good, then the move is good. :scratch:

But my first reaction is that white has some bad aji on the left: in particular they still owe a move around B4/B5. Playing to abandon the left not only gives them an easy 15 points, it is aji keshi.

I don't like it. :grumpy:


I must read some more.
Help make L19 more organized. Make an index: https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5207
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5

Post by Splatted »

Just so you all know, I'm starting uni on monday (and moving there on saturday) so my move rate might be slow for a while. I'm sure I'll be able to make time for it but things will be a little hectic at first. :salute:
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