#197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck

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Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck

Post by yoyoma »

Joaz:
Previously you have said K2 is Black's sente, and R12 is White's sente. So then what remains is a complicated analysis of which one is more sente, and which one is larger. Why do you not mention anything about that when Black chose K2?
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Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck

Post by yoyoma »

Separate post for observers:
I'm surprised Joaz doesn't mention anything at all about MW's tenuki of his previous move on the left. Wasn't that supposed to be an attack? Wasn't it supposed to be sente?

BTW sometimes there are moves that by themselves are not severe attacks, the opponent can tenuki. But if they do tenuki, the followup sequence of attacking moves yield profit. In these cases the defender has a choice: answer the first move and allow it to be a "free" exchange, or tenuki (getting some profit elsewhere) while allowing the "real" attack to commence and giving up some profit there.

Anyways my point is Joaz didn't say anything about it.
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Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

yoyoma wrote:Joaz: Previously you have said K2 is Black's sente, and R12 is White's sente. So then what remains is a complicated analysis of which one is more sente, and which one is larger. Why do you not mention anything about that when Black chose K2?

Because I've been busy. :)

I agree with you: "a complicated analysis of which one is more sente" is in order. I did that...errr...welll..at least a simplictic analysis. I came to the conclusion that L2 hurt me worse than R12. So I replied to K2.

Remember, I'm sure that I can kill his left side group if he does not defend in gote. I'm willing to concede a bit here and there in yose, knowing that he can overextend and find himself needing to play safety moves in gote in two places at once.
Even when he defends, I think that I may be able to kill.

From my point of view, the one sure way to lose right now is to allow him huge yose profits that are big enough to offset the loss of his left side group.

BTW, what I expected was this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: white: 2 black: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | O O X O . X . . . . O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X , . X O . O X . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . O . O O O X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . O X O X O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . X X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X O O O O . O 3 . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X X X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . O O X X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . O X O . . X . |
$$ | . . . O O X X . . O . . O X O X X O . |
$$ | . X O X X . O . O . O . O . O O O . . |
$$ | . X . X . X X O . O X X X . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X . O O X . O X O . X . X . X . |
$$ | . X X O O . . . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . 5 4 1 2 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck

Post by Magicwand »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm77 Prisoners: white: 2 black: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | O O X O . X . . . . O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X , . X O . O X . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . O . O O O X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . O X O X O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . X X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X O O O O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X X X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . X W . . . . . X . . O O X X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . O X O . . X . |
$$ | . . . O O X X . . O . . O X O X X O . |
$$ | . X O X X . O . O . O . O . O O O . . |
$$ | . X . X . X X O . O X X X . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X . O O X . O X O . X . X . X . |
$$ | . X X O O . . . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
black's last move was surprisingly small. i have no idea what he has in his mind...
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The greater the unknown"

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Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm133 Prisoners: white: 2 black: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | O O X O . X . . . . O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X , . X O . O X . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . O . O O O X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . O X O X O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . X X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X O O O O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X X X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . B X O . . . . . X . . O O X X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . O X O . . X . |
$$ | . . . O O X X . . O . . O X O X X O . |
$$ | . X O X X . O . O . O . O . O O O . . |
$$ | . X . X . X X O . O X X X . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X . O O X . O X O . X . X . X . |
$$ | . X X O O . . . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck

Post by Magicwand »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm133 Prisoners: white: 2 black: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | O O X O . X . . . . O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X , . X O . O X . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . O . O O O X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . O X O X O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . X X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X O O O O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X X X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . W . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . X . . O O X X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . O X O . . X . |
$$ | . . . O O X X . . O . . O X O X X O . |
$$ | . X O X X . O . O . O . O . O O O . . |
$$ | . X . X . X X O . O X X X . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X . O O X . O X O . X . X . X . |
$$ | . X X O O . . . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
a b c are big...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm133 Prisoners: white: 2 black: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . a X . . . |
$$ | O O X O . X . . . . O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X , . X O . O X . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . O . O O O X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . O X O X O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . X X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X O O O O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X X X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . W . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . X . . O O X X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . O X O . . X c |
$$ | . . . O O X X . . O . . O X O X X O . |
$$ | . X O X X . O . O . O . O . O O O . . |
$$ | . X . X . X X O . O X X X . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X . O O X . O X O . X . X . X . |
$$ | . X X O O . . . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . b O . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

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Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm155 Prisoners: white: 2 black: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | O O X O . X . . . . O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X , . X O . O X . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . O . O O O X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . O X O X O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . X X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . B . . . X O O O O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X X X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . X . . O O X X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . O X O . . X . |
$$ | . . . O O X X . . O . . O X O X X O . |
$$ | . X O X X . O . O . O . O . O O O . . |
$$ | . X . X . X X O . O X X X . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X . O O X . O X O . X . X . X . |
$$ | . X X O O . . . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Help make L19 more organized. Make an index: https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5207
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Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

There seems to be only one possible explaination for having arrived at the current situation: we both have counted and concluded that we are ahead. :lol: Someone must be wrong. As usual, I hope that it is not me.
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Post by EdLee »

Joaz Banbeck wrote:There seems to be only one possible explaination for having arrived at the current situation:
we both have counted and concluded that we are ahead. :lol: Someone must be wrong.
Joaz got it this time. :mrgreen:
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Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck

Post by Magicwand »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm155 Prisoners: white: 2 black: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | O O X O . X . . . . O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X , . X O . O X . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . O . O O O X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . O X O X O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O W . . X X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . X O O O O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X X X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . X . . O O X X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . O X O . . X . |
$$ | . . . O O X X . . O . . O X O X X O . |
$$ | . X O X X . O . O . O . O . O O O . . |
$$ | . X . X . X X O . O X X X . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X . O O X . O X O . X . X . X . |
$$ | . X X O O . . . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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The greater the unknown"

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Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck

Post by Magicwand »

i have a feeling that my opponent will count seriously and resign on next move..
another win for magicwand.
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The greater the unknown"

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Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm2 Prisoners: white: 2 black: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | O O X O . X . . . . O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X , . X O . O X . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . O . O O O X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . O X O X O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O O . . X X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . X O O O O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X X X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . X . . O O X X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . O X O . . X . |
$$ | . . . O O X X . . O . . O X O X X O . |
$$ | . X O X X . O . O . O . O . O O O . . |
$$ | . X . X . X X O . O X X X . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X . O O X . O X O . X . X . X . |
$$ | . X X O O . . . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Post by EdLee »

Magicwand wrote:i have a feeling that my opponent will count seriously and resign on next move..
W can still do something LR corner... ?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | O O X O . X . . . . O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X , . X O . O X . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . O . O O O X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . O X O X O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O O . . X X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . X O O O O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X X X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . X . . O O X X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . O X O . . X . |
$$ | . . . O O X X . . O . . O X O X X O . |
$$ | . X O X X . O . O . O . O . O O O . . |
$$ | . X . X . X X O . O X X X . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X . O O X . O X O . X . X . X . |
$$ | . X X O O . . . . O X . . . b . a . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O O X c . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
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Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck

Post by Magicwand »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm2 Prisoners: white: 2 black: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . W . . . X . . . |
$$ | O O X O . X . . . . O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X , . X O . O X . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . O . O O O X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . O X O X O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O O . . X X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . X O O O O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X X X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . X . . O O X X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . O X O . . X . |
$$ | . . . O O X X . . O . . O X O X X O . |
$$ | . X O X X . O . O . O . O . O O O . . |
$$ | . X . X . X X O . O X X X . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X . O O X . O X O . X . X . X . |
$$ | . X X O O . . . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

i let him have everything
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The greater the unknown"

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Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm222 Prisoners: white: 2 black: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | O O X O . X . . . . O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X , . X O . O X . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . O . O O O X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . O X O X O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O O . . X X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . X O O O O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X X X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . X X O B . . . . X . . O O X X X O . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . O X O . . X . |
$$ | . . . O O X X . . O . . O X O X X O . |
$$ | . X O X X . O . O . O . O . O O O . . |
$$ | . X . X . X X O . O X X X . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X . O O X . O X O . X . X . X . |
$$ | . X X O O . . . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Help make L19 more organized. Make an index: https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5207
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